Newbie needs help - Page 2

brucehawsker · 21 May 2004, 13:41

Thank you for the interesting digression!

I have had a couple of comments that cause me to wonder if I am wrong rejecting second hand as a potential solution. My problem is that, just as if I were buying a car, I don't really know to avoid buying a dog. For example, is this crazy (picked almost art random):

SOLENT 6.5M RIB, 2003, Ex-demo, as new. Yamaha F155 four-stroke, 2 hours running only. Blue Hypalon Henshaw tubes, black fendering & lifelines, Treadmaster floor, bow locker, stainless steel A-frame, console with double seat to front with storage under, 2 single seat pods with s/s backrests & storage under, 2 double seat pods with s/s backrests & storage under, 160L s/s under floor fuel tank, compass. Galvanised braked road trailer. RRP £22,995. Lying: Tollesbury, Essex UK £19,250. T. TSL 01621 868624 or Email: sales@tolsalt.co.uk
Ref: EQRI

Advantages are it is ready now - disadvantages it is not specified to my needs and there may be warranty, finance issues.

How would I go about finding the right second hand boat, or I am just mad to take such risks? As a newbie I would be seen a mile off - not that I am asserting that the dealers are are anything less than reputable, but I am an easy target for unloading less desirable stock.

One of the manufacturers told me that the rib community is so tight that any decent second hand ribs as this time of year would have been bought by friends, and only the dogs get to the open market!

Thanks for your time and patience.

Bruce

John Kennett · 21 May 2004, 13:56

There can be definite advantages of buying second hand -- someone else has suffered the inital depreciation and you don't have to wait.

Even if you think that you know exactly what spec you want, you'll probably find that you want something different after you first season anyway!

Using your example, the first thing would be to call Lee at Solent RIBs and ask him what he knows about that boat.

You can always post details here and see what other people think. It's difficult to price a boat unseen, but you should be able to gauge general opinion about whether it's likely to be a reasonable buy.

Why not ask if there is someone here who would come and have a look at the boat with you? It's not the same as having a survey, but a second opinion for the cost of a couple of beers would probably be worthwhile!

And finally, I suspect that the manufacturer's advice may have been slightly influenced by his desire to sell you a new boat

John

Louise · 21 May 2004, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Why not ask if there is someone here who would come and have a look at the boat with you? It's not the same as having a survey, but a second opinion for the cost of a couple of beers would probably be worthwhile!

I'm sure Richard B would be happy to do this - he loves poking around boats and managed to buy quite a decent second-hand boat (IMHO)!

BTW, I've replied to your e-mail, Bruce. Did you receive it?

swginn · 21 May 2004, 14:10

Well, as I see it, you've got 2 choices, and they essentially come down to whether you want to be on the water this yr or next yr.

Choice 1: You buy used. You'll be able to enjoy the Summer out on the water. Boat may not be your ideal spec (layout, engine, options). You make a saving on the price of a new boat (but not as much as you should!! This time of year good boats are scarce and expensive as they are in high demand)

Choice 2: You spend the rest of the year researching ribs, Get out on the water on as much different types as possible, I'm sure there'll be a few people on here looking for crew from time to time. Then you buy new and get the best deal possible at LBS or other boat shows. You'll have your ideal rib next summer, full warranty, brand new boat, no damage worries and the piece of mind that you've bought the best Rib possible for your needs.

Its all down to patience. Remember good things come to those who wait!!

If you get over to Cork Week (sailing event/ piss up of the year), you are welcome to come for a spin on my new rib, an XS600 / Optimax 135.

Windchill · 21 May 2004, 14:12

I am now in the process of looking for my 3rd RIB in as many years! The specification I want is far removed from #1, and, having years of sailing experience on the waters in which I mainly use my RIB, I thought I was well sorted in this respect.

Shopping around for ex demo boats has served me well financially, as long as I delude myself that all the "whistles and bells" I've tended to add were free!!

However, I am still torn between buying new or second hand. New RIBs compared to other "boy toys" like motorbikes and cars do seem overpriced for what they are, and there are some seriously good s/h boats out there.

A key factor in my decision making process is my family's willingness, or otherwise(!!) to work as a team shoreside ie can we handle the bigger boat we all know would be better on the water off it?

Bilge Rat · 21 May 2004, 14:20

Jk's right.....infact he's always right

I'd second everything he's said

Does that get me another credability point

Seriously if i knew back when i bought my boat what i know now i wouldn't have bought it, my boat is nearly 15 years old and it was about on its last legs when i bought it for £1600, if it had of all gone wrong back then and i had of made the correct desicion to walk away from it then i'd have blown £1600, instead i kept chasing it throwing money at problems and fixing things as they came along and i've probably spent 3k fixing it up ...... and most will say i'm crazy doing what i did but could i go out now and buy a new 4.7 metre boat with a 50hp (now reliable) engine A frame, nav light, GPS map, VHF and all the bits and pieces that go with a boat for 4.6k ? of course the answer is NO.

JK gave me one bit of advice a long time ago when i started asking questions about boats.........enjoy this bit

So talk to people, take them with you when you go looking, insist on a sea trial of the boat, get others advice about the boat both professional and us on the forum, go out on as many boats as you possibly can and enjoy the buying process...... and to cap anything on a boat can be fixed if you throw the right amount of money at it as i've found out.

brucehawsker · 21 May 2004, 14:24

My problem is one of time. Sadly I need to earn money (!) and running my own consultancy is not a sinecure (despite taking time out to chat on this forum today!!). I really need to narrow the range of possible boats down sharply so I look at only two or three (with the kindly proffered help from any of the friends I am rapidly making here!).

What web sites should I look for? What should be my primary criteria for deciding which boats to pursue?

I still wonder if it is all too hard, and I should buy new and not have the worry....

Thank you

Bruce

Alan · 21 May 2004, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

I still wonder if it is all too hard, and I should buy new and not have the worry....

Bruce

Sorry, but you can get just as much worry buying new IMHO although probably with a bit more comeback. RIB building is a cottage industry and even new boats have problems. Being aware of whats important in build and fit out (mostly common sense) and an "informed consumer" is very important IMHO.

That Solent at Tollesbury sounds interesting. If you want someone to go look at it with you then I'd be happy to as I live nearby.

Cheers,
Alan

Bilge Rat · 21 May 2004, 14:33

Bruce.... Before you decide to go new read some of the posts about people's problems with new boats !! they still have problems with engines, hulls and fittings, and it seems to be the more you pay and the more complicated the rig the more ploblems you face.....! Only difference is you will have some sort of dealer backup to fall back on, buy privately and your on your own. !

If i had 20k to spend on a boat i'd seriously be looking at someone like Ribcraft or the bigger Avons, Avons becuase i know how well they are put together and Ribcraft because they have buit up a fair reputation for a quality/strong finish to there boats.
And as well as new i'd be looking at the quality nearly new secondhand market for one, i'd love a Scorpian and no doubt one day i'll have one but thats just a dream away !!

Louise · 21 May 2004, 14:34

I think you need to get clear in your mind: size of hull, seating, engine size and 2 stroke or 4 stroke. www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk is a popular website and check the Buy & Sell section here. I've PMed you too!

Bilge Rat · 21 May 2004, 14:34

Alan ...... Great minds think alike !!

simmons0 · 21 May 2004, 14:41

It really is just a case of going to all the different boat builders and telling them what you want and them giving you a price.

Then you have a look at what you like and dont like and take your pick.

brucehawsker · 21 May 2004, 14:55

"I think you need to get clear in your mind: size of hull, seating, engine size and 2 stroke or 4 stroke. "

* Size max 6.5m for reasons of towing and launching,
* min 5.75m for reasons of ride and general robustness. Also endurance (as in miles before filling up - sorry, I suppose that should read nautical miles) - bigger boat more fuel - or am I wrong there
* seating 4 jockey seats - plus a small bench in front of console (terminology?) for occasional fair weather use
* engine size - don't know, assumed the builder would tell me
*2 stroke or 4 stroke - don't even understand the question...

Oh dear, you see the problem.....

Louise · 21 May 2004, 15:02

* Size max 6.5m for reasons of towing and launching, Sensible
* min 5.75m for reasons of ride and general robustness. Also endurance (as in miles before filling up - sorry, I suppose that should read nautical miles) - bigger boat more fuel - or am I wrong there Sensible. Go for the biggest fuel tank you can (ours is 270 litres) and preferably underdeck (IMHO)
* seating 4 jockey seats - plus a small bench in front of console (terminology?) for occasional fair weather use Sensible
* engine size - don't know, assumed the builder would tell me Boats are rated for a maximum horsepower and/or weight. For a 6.5m I would say you need a 115 - 150hp engine
*2 stroke or 4 stroke - don't even understand the question...Generally speaking - 2 stroke = noisier & more expensive to run but more acceleration/speed; 4 stroke = quieter & cheaper to run but not as fast. Of course you could opt for diesel - more expensive to purchase but cheaper to run and higher resale value.

HTH

(running for cover, anticipating the bullets...)

John Kennett · 21 May 2004, 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by swginn

Choice 2: You spend the rest of the year researching ribs, Get out on the water on as much different types as possible, I'm sure there'll be a few people on here looking for crew from time to time. Then you buy new and get the best deal possible at LBS or other boat shows. You'll have your ideal rib next summer, full warranty, brand new boat, no damage worries and the piece of mind that you've bought the best Rib possible for your needs.

And then you'll use it for a season and discover that it wasn't what you wanted and get something different anyway!

I would suggest that you only plan on keeping your first RIB for one season and use it as a learning experience. You won't know what you really want until you actually go and do some boating. In my experience taking rides on other people's boats comes a very poor second.

There was Bruce, definite that he wanted to buy new and look what we've done to him!

John

John

John Kennett · 21 May 2004, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge Rat

Jk's right.....infact he's always right

I'd second everything he's said

Does that get me another credability point

No chance. You're more likely to get whacked by everyone else for grovelling

John

brucehawsker · 21 May 2004, 15:38

Just to confuse things further, and then I have to go and work - just been offered on short delivery a new South African Rib-X (have I got the name right?) 640 finished in the UK to my spec at what looks like a reasonable price. No one has mentioned Rib-X - is there a story there?

Thanks for the input on engines etc.

Will read more later tonight hopefully.

Also thanks for the reading list. Off to spend money on Amazon!

Cheers

Bruce

Louise · 21 May 2004, 15:43

I posted this on the other thread (Which 6.5?) but here it is again:

This is the same as the Falcon 640 but rebadged for the UK (I think). There are a couple of Falcon owners on this forum who both seem to be very happy with their craft. RIB International magazine has a review of this boat (& its big sister) and seemed to like it, saying "A very likeable RIB indeed, both capable and seaworthy, one whose predictable handling characteristics would be highly suited to the first time RIB owner".

They give the price as £18990 + vat for the boat with standard equipment & a 140hp Suzuki. This does not include built in fuel tanks, nav lights or jockey seats but does include a bow seat, helm seat and 'splashwell' seat (rear bench seat?). It also comes with no feedback steering. IMHO you should ask for hydraulic steering (although it will be more expensive).

There has been some disagreement over build quality in the past (a certain photo!) but I have not heard any 'horror stories'.

The Jackeens · 21 May 2004, 16:15

...and Bogib flogs panadols should you need a couple ,Newbie!!!!

missus

simmons0 · 21 May 2004, 16:56

Quote:

This does not include built in fuel tanks, nav lights or jockey seats but does include a bow seat, helm seat and 'splashwell' seat (rear bench seat?). It also comes with no feedback steering. IMHO you should ask for hydraulic steering (although it will be more expensive).

Rib-x dont fit realy underfloor fuel tanks. Instead they fit a plastic tank in a under floor well that runs the entire length of the boat. IMO this is better than a s/s under floor tank and they really pack it in well with foam etc to stop it moving or banging and you still get your filler on the side of the console.

Jockey seats are also an option as the standard package is with a bench. Splash well seat is a confortable hinged bench seat right at the back of the boat. I was going to have one of these at one point and was very happy with the benches, something to test on a sea trial.

As for the steering i agree go hydraulic, well worth the extra cost.