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Old 20 August 2010, 08:20   #21
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Handy though, if one has difficulty seeing over a taller bow...
nice retort! actually made me smile at my desk.

4 hrs to go and i'm heading to the coast for a blast hopefully in the morning. Been a while with limited floating due to an even minnier mini me, plenty of cobwebs to move.

your documented cruise looked great.
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Old 20 August 2010, 09:04   #22
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You're right. If I had 100k the options are a house or flash cruiser in the med as if you have that money for private luxuries, you'd fly to warmer climes.

I don't understand, an open rib costs say 30-40k new for a v nice 6-7m. Why can't someone design one with a small cabin that isn't butt ugly for 5k more?
I think there are a number of reasons, but simple accounting gives you part of the answer:

Lets say to design and build a production mould tool for a 6m hull costs 50k (I've no idea if that is a sensible number, but if you include the true costs of labour then I'd think its got to be in the very rough ball park). Now if you want to make your money back on the tooling in three years, and expect to build 25 boats (one every six weeks) in this time then you add 2k to the cost of building each hull to recover the cost. Its easier to recover the cost if one mould can make maybe 3 different sizes of hull. Now, for a cabin you might be looking at a similar cost to design and make the tool, (it probably needs two tools so you get nice finish on both inside and out, has to interface with the windows etc). But how many cabins will you sell? Maybe only 5-10 in the same period, so to recover your investment in tooling you'll need to add 5-10k per cabin to the cost, plus the costs of making the cabin itself. Producing one cabin that fits your whole range (without looking but ugly, or screwing up the balance) is tricky - so you might need multiple cabins to cover the same range of hulls.

Now this also assumes that everyone looking for a cabin wants the same thing. E.g. a wheelhouse? somewhere to sleep? etc And of course everyone has a different view of what is but ugly.

Now add in the fact that many people looking for a cabin are also looking for a diesel (for range, fuel availability, lower running costs) - that pushes up the price even for equivalent HP.

A cabin takes up free space on board, driving you towards a bigger boat. A diesel takes up free space driving you towards a bigger boat.

A cabin adds weight to the boat and potentially aerodynamic resistance? driving you towards a bigger engine, a diesel is heavier driving you towards a bigger engine, a bigger boat drives you towards a bigger engine.

Bigger boat + engine obviously = higher cost.

If you look at a e.g. a redbay price list, the incremental cost of the cabins versus the identical boat without the cabin and its not a totally ridiculous step.

If you are saying you have 45k to spend on a cabin rib - then I think you could potentially get one... the problem is you probably have 25k to spend and the scope has been creeping to end up at 40 k before the cabin.
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Old 20 August 2010, 09:21   #23
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If you look at a e.g. a redbay price list
Purely for Illustrative Purposes, no doubt! I tell mrs willk the same bollix.

Bear in mind that the soon to be gone Yammie 315 costs over 30k, the Electronics around 10k, seats at a couple of grand, etc., etc. The poor rib maker has to scrabble for pennies (am I laying this on thick enough Tom?)

FWIW, I think that the Redbay 8.4 Expedition makes the most use of available space that I've seen on a RIB that size, from the two berths in the hard nose to the step-on swim platform behind the drive.

I have high hopes for the all new 850...
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Old 20 August 2010, 10:04   #24
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lovely looking boat! i would really like one of them!!

i spoke with Rayglass last year about a 7.5 center console but it wasnt CE marked and they were a but reluctant to do anything about it!

didnt have the funds for an 8.5 at the time so left it alone!

would love to see one in the flesh. i love the look of them, especially if they could be made to look a little more leisure orientated, Teak decks and pop up table and things and reckon they would sell over here if there were more around. i know Mrs Zippy would take some convincing on their looks but the berth, toilet and wine fridge and reckon i would have a chance!

there are usually some old americas cup boats but the open market prices for them are crazy considering the work they have done! i suspect most are sold from within at more realistic prices!

remember seeing a cabin Cougar on here a few years ago also which looked nice!
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Old 20 August 2010, 10:14   #25
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Polwart, fair points regarding costs/recovery, though i think i'm leaning towards the cheaper simpler end of the market with less developmental/build costs.

dories (pah!) were made in different sizes and had options of the fast/fisher cabin. The sold well, would that not translate across.

For example, those that seem to buy the 5.8 -6.5m boats for a family of four wouldn't want the extensive set up you lead on to with full cabin, increased size, weight, then associated inboard diesel etc etc for cruises around the top of scotland (Redbay, protector et al have that covered!)

Redbay do however do the stormforce fast fisher on the 6.1 but its got the lines only a WILLK could love. I'd imagined something a bit like that, a fairly simple set up, light, still with outboard keeping deck space free etc. i remember being 7/8 years old, curled up in my old mans coats in the little cupboard/storage area/cabin in front of the helm in a dory/fast fisher after too many hours fishing in to the late hours.
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Old 20 August 2010, 10:58   #26
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Polwart, fair points regarding costs/recovery, though i think i'm leaning towards the cheaper simpler end of the market with less developmental/build costs.

dories (pah!) were made in different sizes and had options of the fast/fisher cabin. The sold well, would that not translate across.

For example, those that seem to buy the 5.8 -6.5m boats for a family of four wouldn't want the extensive set up you lead on to with full cabin, increased size, weight, then associated inboard diesel etc etc for cruises around the top of scotland (Redbay, protector et al have that covered!)

Redbay do however do the stormforce fast fisher on the 6.1 but its got the lines only a WILLK could love. I'd imagined something a bit like that, a fairly simple set up, light, still with outboard keeping deck space free etc. i remember being 7/8 years old, curled up in my old mans coats in the little cupboard/storage area/cabin in front of the helm in a dory/fast fisher after too many hours fishing in to the late hours.
Paul, to some extent I agree - Humber seemed happy for other people to kit out/rig their boats commercially and I did think it odd that nobody has developed a cheap wheel house arrangement which they plonk on a humber hull/tubes. However if the pinnacle of wheelhouse/cabin design is the cuddy on the front of a dory I can see why no one has bothered!

You could go and buy a wheelhouse from outhill:



or modify a tractor cab as per JWalker:



or forget about squishy tubes and have something a bit more cuddy like:


Or the cuddy that humber (?) produced a few of which mounts on top of the tubes.



But I'm not sure any of them will pass your butt ugly test! JW's is the only one that passes mine - and I'm not that picky!
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Old 20 August 2010, 11:30   #27
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a good selection of classics! Especially the humber! I'd agree, JW's is the only one remotely acceptable as it does appear to be fit for purpose and looks very utilitarian.

I like the idea of cruising round for weeks on end in the remote parts of our island. One day definitely a must.

Heh ho, i'm still young enough to just suit up in foul weather gear and ski goggles and go for a blast. 30 mins until i head off for the week end! Can't wait.
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Old 20 August 2010, 13:00   #28
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Thats nothing more than a blatant attempt to have JW's smalls on World Wide Display.... and you know it ..... keep up the good work
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Old 20 August 2010, 13:15   #29
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Thats nothing more than a blatant attempt to have JW's not-so-smalls on World Wide Display.... and you know it ..... keep up the good work
Fixed that for you
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