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Old 16 March 2005, 17:26   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeewayComposite
take a look at this.......

it could also be a picton like this boat maybe?
there are fundimental differences between, your 'unique' rib, and that picture you've posted, these may not be obvious to a layman, or indeed a laminator, but I guarantee, Adam, Matt, JK, and countless others can see it, just as I can.

Codprawn. you are so wrong!
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Old 16 March 2005, 17:32   #72
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I can't see the difference... but then I know Jack Shit about boats..... just don't argue with me about the properties of different steels though..... A Feck... too much vino... I'm orf... see you kids in the morning....
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Old 16 March 2005, 17:51   #73
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So now im confused.

Jonny,
Are you saying it is the same as the picton or isnt?

What boat do people think hes copying?

Does it count as a real splash if his hull is for a rib and the company hes splashed only does hardboats?

Personally I like the design wether its splashed or not but if its taken off a hardboat then i cud see how if word gets around that its splashed then it could help him with orders because people that like the style of that hard boat but want a rib will be buying it.
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Old 16 March 2005, 17:55   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
I still say that with all the designs that have gone before coming up with a truly NEW design is not easy.

Just read an article where Regal boats are being sued by someone who patented a stepped hull design in 1990 - Regal claim that by adding a few strakes and modifying the profile it is a NEW design - mmmm!!!

To take matters further stepped hulls were quite common in powerboat racing in the 30s and seemed to originate in Seaplane floats and flying boat hull - why I didn't think of it sooner when I have flown in a few seaplanes I don't know - just look at a Shorts sunderland for example!!!
True - a lot of things that are claimed as revolutionary are not all and have been around in some form or another a long time ago. Often not that successfully due to poor execution or because of the advances we have since seen in materials and mechanical efficiency.

There really was some fascinating experimantal designs created many decades ago.

But there is still room to create new features and ideas - it really is what fascinates me about hull design.
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Old 16 March 2005, 17:58   #75
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just a point of interest as leeway is getting lots of orders , is this boat CE marked or does it not need it as it is only being sold as a hull and tubes ?? PS we dont get all this discussion when we retube a rib!!!!
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Old 16 March 2005, 18:21   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul tilley
just a point of interest as leeway is getting lots of orders , is this boat CE marked or does it not need it as it is only being sold as a hull and tubes ?? PS we dont get all this discussion when we retube a rib!!!!
hi Paul,
Thank you for asking this qiuestion as quite a few of my customers ask the very question....

she is ce approved to a category C. all regulations have been followed. she 100% conforms to BS EN ISO 6185 part 3. and I have owners manual hin number (registered with bmf) builders plates. she has been fully assessed for stability and buoyancy. i have all papper work up together. even the decloration of conformaty.

so if you want one as well I'll add your name to the list? there will be a deposit to pay (of course)
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Old 16 March 2005, 18:26   #77
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sorry forgot, in the owners manual there is even a registration form. please make sure you fill this in correctly as it could void your full guarantee..
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Old 16 March 2005, 18:34   #78
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You can always count on the young to give you the full benefit of their inexperience!

No he isn't saying it's the same as a Picton

If you look at a hardboat and a rib under way and on the plane I think you may find that it's the same bits left in the water i.e the running surfaces so I feel that somewhat negates your argument re hardboat hulls and rib hulls

The amount of royalties that a boat designer could expect for a 20 foot hull being produced by other companies isn't huge, probably less than a grand so why not pay for a licensed product and ensure that the designer continues to profit from his intelectual effort and craftsmansip, as opposed to giving up boat design and using his brains to be an Estate Agent or some other lucrative calling.

The reason why the guy that designed Phantoms (a hugely succesful hull design and very affordable ) no longer designs boats is that he was tired of being spalshed and the money he was making wasn't worth the hassle. The Phantom range went from 16 feet to 30 feet and probably won more world and national championships than I've had birthdays! Can you imagine the superb qualities a range of ribs from that guy would be only it aint gonna happen cos he doesn't want to design boats anymore. If you want a taster of what might have been trial a Phantom Evolution!
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Old 16 March 2005, 18:41   #79
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It is a splash of a Phantom 18

To try and understand the priciple of having a design stolen, whatever the intended use, imagine having taken many hundreds of hours slaving over a wooden plug, getting every aspect of it perfect and true to the drawings you've produced in the hope that it will fulfill your needs, in this case, for racing/fast pleasure. after what was probably many months of fettling the new form, and preparing it for 'taking a mould' you throw more time and money into first, making the mould itself, then all the time & cost of producing a boat from the mould, then fitting the boat out, so that you can finally get to test all the theory you've been banking on.

lets say for arguments sake, on testing, there are characteristics you're not totaly happy with, now you must take the finished boat and make modifications to it, maybe many times over until you're completely happy, now you'll have to fair the hull, which you've stripped out again, so that you can take another mould for producing the production run of boats.

This process is usually very slow, very expensive, and risky, after all, it may be a complete flop, in which case, your gamble didn't pay off and it's back to the drawing board, and all your investment (time and Money) have gone!

Now you proven design begins to sell, hopefully you'll sell enough to re-coup the enormous outlay of the development and actually make some money.

Now you're as happy as a pig in shit, and feeling pretty pleased with yourself.

Then, fred bloggs finds a nice cheap second hand boat (of the model you've very kindly designed, developed, produced the tooling, paid for, and proved successful) spends few measely bob waxing it, and takes a mould from it, and in a few weeks is producing the very same boat, usually to a low standard of workmanship, and cheaper (coz he has no investment to re-coup) and starts selling them.

If fredd bloggs only bothers to steal the running surface, say, for a rib, it's not really any less anoying, coz thats the bit that took all the development, and this is the very reason the thief steals it in the first place, it's the valuable bit, and if he doesn't have the know how to design himself, he'd have to pay someone else to do it!

And trust me, having the skill to knock up a wonky old console plug, is a world apart from the skill required to build an accurate plug required for a successful racing hull, even if you do have the drawings.

most splashers make one or two small alterations to the moulding claiming it to now be 'their design' after all, they've changed it, it's a different boat now.

Trying to sue these types is almost impossible, and costs the earth, something the average cottage industry british boatbuilder simply cannot afford to do. also, as soon as any threat looms to the splasher (usually an even smaller firm) they just go pop, and re-appear a month later, working out of another lock-up, under a new name and start over, all your legal fees and heartache from your original case are history! and there's really fkk all you can do about it.

The few talented and successfull boatbuilders we have in this country deserve more respect than this, and the 'splashers' are no more than parasites!

I for one hate to see any thief make any sort of profit from their low life activities, be it a splasher, a common burglar, or maybe a car stereo thief!

when you get your 400 car hi-fi stolen, does it give you a warm feeling knowing the scumbag can now afford some fags and a big mac with the 20 quid he got for your stereo?
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Old 16 March 2005, 18:53   #80
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Yeh i see the point!

And im not going to pass judgement on wetha it is or isnt a splashed design because looking at it i dont really no enough to see any differences anyway.

If it is splashed then i see it only fair that the splashee (dont think thats a word but u get the point) pays some dues to the original designer, but if its a company that does good hardboat hulls but doesnt make ribs then the splahsed hull is filling a nich in the market where rib fans may have though 'i like that boat but i want a rib' so if both splashee and original designer could come to an agreement they would both gain aswell as giving each other future prospects of working together and therefore in the long run it would be better for the splashee to ask permission and come to an agreement with the original designer.
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