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Old 14 December 2002, 07:12   #1
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New navigation hazzard in the English Channel

Opps!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2575009.stm

https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/public/ne...h=12&year=2002

Keith (need a cheap new car?) Hart
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Old 14 December 2002, 09:06   #2
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Yes I've heard in the news Keith

However what I do not understand is that:

1.- Didn't these people have their radars on??
2.- Did both ships kept in their lanes? or did they crossed over?? and
3.- if they did, didn't the monitoring Cannel Coastguard station warn them about thir collision course?

Would be very curious to find out

But for us divers their is a slightly damaged car for sale and awaiting at the bottom of the Channel.
Keith just give the word and will get one out for you too LOLOL




PS something I forgot WAS ANY BODY ON THE BRIDGE @ THE TIME?? or EVERYTHING it was on autopilot and the crew was waching the TV?? It has happened before you know!!
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Old 14 December 2002, 10:25   #3
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If these two big ships could not see each other, makes the use of a radar reflector on a RIB or other tiny boat (in comparison) look a bit daft. I guess even with a radar reflector you wouldn't even look as big as one of their containers in their cargo!

I just hope those guys had all their safety gear!!, I bet they didn't expect that when they left home.

Pete
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Old 14 December 2002, 17:19   #4
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Not very deep either by all accounts, were's me diving kit, could do with a new Opel or BMW. Anyone got a rib ?

Pete

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Old 14 December 2002, 18:23   #5
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From the shots on the news the boat is in fact still awash at low tide! Seeing as this is only about 1/2 hr by sea from me i might think about taking a look. I think the rescue operating will be quite interesting (guess they will re-float it???) just a pity it's not a little warmer or i could bob around with a beer and watch!

Dan
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Old 15 December 2002, 05:14   #6
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One can just imagine the panic that is going on in BMW, Volvo & Saab showrooms all over the country as the salesmen explain to their customers that the nice model they ordered for their wife for Xmas is lying at the bottom of the English Channel.
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Old 15 December 2002, 12:37   #7
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Salvage

Kind of suprised to see that nobody jumped in their rib motored out and secured a line to her, claim salvage and subcontracted a company to lift her and refloat,But whatever the outcome ,it is incredible that such large vessels can collide gavin
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Old 15 December 2002, 12:54   #8
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Is that not just a myth?

Anyone know the in's and out's of salvage?

Daniel (£££) Hawkes
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Old 15 December 2002, 15:13   #9
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...after a friend of mine told me that fisherman off the coast of Anglesey waited around to offer "assistance" to weekend sports-boaters who ran out of petrol and then claim salvage, I did a bit of research (Google I think). I found that you have to present a salvage claim to the Receiver of Wrecks who asesses salvage claims. This isn't just a 100% award - it's based on how much "effort" the salver has to go to, and other stuff. Have a look at the MCA web site as a starter:
http://www.mcga.gov.uk/row/
Happy reading!
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Old 15 December 2002, 16:04   #10
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Anyone know the in's and out's of salvage?
See article in October RIB International magazine...

Keith Hart
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Old 16 December 2002, 03:46   #11
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Salvage

Quote:
Anyone know the in's and out's of salvage?

THE VERY BASICS

When a vessel is in peril and has not been abodonde by all of her crew and her Master aks for assistance the tugs (run around a wounded vessel in these situations like voulchers) present the Master with what is called a 'Lloyd's Open Form'. To provide assistance to the vessel the Master has to sign this form otherwise will let it sink. If the master signs the form the tugs (salvors) have a lien on the vessel and/or her cargo.
However, when one a vessel is found abandoned by her crew the salvor has a lien of the vessel and on her cargo and he can claim salvage by towing the vessel to a port of refuge where the vessel should lie safe afloat. The salvor has to register his claim with the local Port Authority at the prot of refuge and through the courts should claim his salvage reward which can be the actual vessel and her cargo or moneys from the insurance company.

This is a link to the 'US OPEN FORM'
http://www.smany.org/sma/salvform.html

also a link for some free advise about salvage and Maritime Law
http://law.freeadvice.com/admiralty_..._and_treasure/

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Old 16 December 2002, 04:01   #12
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..and a saad photo a partial loss

taken from the small craft file on slavage
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Old 16 December 2002, 07:09   #13
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Think this could make a comedy sketch, another ship has now hit the sunken one !!!.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2578803.stm

And they call small boat skippers.

Think i am buy shares in WD40, i suspect there may be a lot of cars in need of a good damp start treatment soon

Regards Gary
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Old 16 December 2002, 07:16   #14
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tHEY SAY THAT THER WAS NO POLLUTION

However, if anyone saw the video in the news last night did you noticed the big oil sleak around the ship??
Now would someone now correct me and tell me that it was the lub oil and not the fuel oil leaking out???
I don't believe that the crew has shut off all the fuel valves beofre they sank. Probably it was EVERYMAN FOR HIM SRLF when that incident happened.
And as I said I will be (everyone should be really) very much interested to hear why did these two high-tec (one container carrier and the other state of the art Ro-Ro/Car Carrier) ships collided mid Channel?
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Old 16 December 2002, 14:20   #15
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Bl**dy worrying

if you ask me...

If that was a passenger ferry we could be reading about many fatalities

Whilst it does appear comical that another ship can then run in to it, I think serious questions should be raised and demanded immediately by the public to reassure us of the safety of cross channel sailings

There has not been on any of the news coverage people seriously questioning why this has happened, we are not talking about 2 jets approaching each other at 200 mph, they cant have been doing more than 20 mph

So how did it happen, does this mean ships simply get put on autopilot without anyone looking at radar whilst the crew go for a beer ?

Heads should roll, they got away very lightly and were very lucky

(Steps down from his soapbox)
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Old 16 December 2002, 16:04   #16
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Interesting article in Lloyds List (Shipping Industry Newspaper) about construction regulations for commercial Ro Ro's as opposed to passenger ferries. Apparently the commercial Ro Ro's like the Tricolor do not have to comply with the same regs as passenger Ro Ro's as imposed by the IMO after the Herald of Free Enterprise disaster. So in theory your cross channel ferry is safer. In reality I wonder whether they are? Large open car decks thus lots of free surface effect if they get flooded which means they'll roll over quickly. Wide passenger decks which would prove lethal when canted at 90 degrees. Big windows and not much access to "on deck" - how do you get off in a hurry?

Same article says that the Tricolor had overtaken the other ship which then for some reason swerved into it. Presumably both had Radar so was it a case of equipment failure (radar or steering) or poor watch keeping. Guess we'll find out. Also highly amused about pictures of 3000 grt cargo ship that managed to run aground on the wreck and be high and dry at LT despite warning buoys and French warship on station. British warship now on station to prevent re-occurance!!

Alan
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Old 16 December 2002, 16:36   #17
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A least this sad story will give the people who post a load of toffee on the MotorBoat forum something else to talk about instead of my little indiscredion with an uncharted, unlit fish farm.

Alan P

Actualy someone asked me "what was th ehigh points and low points of the trip"? The low point was hitting an uncharted, unlit fish farm in total darkness and the high point was hearing that HMS Nottingham had hit an island that had been around since time began.
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Old 16 December 2002, 17:13   #18
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Alan, I have read with despair some of the comments on the MBY forum, but lets just be glad that the furthest most of them will ever get (if they ever get out of there arm chairs) is the lock at Port Solent. Imagine the carnage if they made it to the Solent. As if to prove the point an interesting but true story, so pull up a chair or sand bag in Flankers case.

The scene, Chichester harbour late September 1995, ie after the boat show. Four potential powerboat instructors and one instructor/trainer are standing on a pontoon having a smoke break in the course whilst discussing the merits and teaching points of the lesson on turning a powerboat around by ropes. Everyone is paying attention as one of us is going to have to teach this in a minute.

meandering down the channel comes 25 feet of new white yacht compelete with husband, wife, two kids and dog all dressed in very fetching and matching yellow sailing suits, life jackets and safety harnesses clipped on. Husband leans over the side towards us and asks, "which way to the sea" !


Stunned the five of us look at each other in agast! Surely not.
After a brief pause the relisation dawns on us he is serious and more to the point what should we tell him. Right at the bottom of the channel goes to the sea were he is bound become another statistic for the RNLI or left up Chichester harbour were by the time he gets up to Chi Pool it will be late afternoon, he will have had a great days cruise and not endangered himself.

We tell him left to which he thanks us as he sails on past. Actually he is making four knots, three of which are due to the tide ebbing and only one knot from the sails because he hasn't a clue how to set them.

We finish the lesson quick time desperate to get the rib going again and chase after him, just to see what happens next, but the trainer has other ideas - like keeping the hell out of the way!

I now treat all yachts and gin palaces with equal distrust, this guy might have moved up to a bigger boat

Pete
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Old 17 December 2002, 01:15   #19
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Old 17 December 2002, 01:59   #20
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- it's on ybw.com Keith...

But it needs sparkling up with a bit of real humour. I see they've copied JK's "smilies" but still misses the mark as far as I'm concerned. A couple of regulars talk sense, but there's a lot of tosh to get through...

(nothing on SIBs either!)
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