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Old 02 December 2006, 21:40   #11
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Being in a high speed boat in rough seas is fun but when you fall out of it some means of getting back in is required. I have often mulled over this because I have personal experience of struggling to get back in to a RIB. Firstly I think we need to make sure the killcord is going to work. Then we need a means of getting back on the stationary boat. I don't think swimming is one of those options unless its dead calm. My answer would be to have an extending line on our lifejacket that we could pull on to get ourselves back to the boat. And by extending line I mean one that is perhaps 50 meters long and not one that the yachties use. It might not be feasable most of the time but if your going to have some fun in big waves then I think it should be considered part of your safety equipment along with a lifejacket and for us RIBSTERs a drysuit.
This has I think been talked about before. I would be worried about getting tangled up in the line but the chances of swimming back to the boat in a strong wind are pretty remote.
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Old 03 December 2006, 02:19   #12
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My own experience moves me to disagree with you here - I've tried various points for attaching the killcord and found that the wrist was the worst, the lifejacket the most secure but most difficult to attach and detach, and around the knee to be the best as it has never snagged on anything for me.
I agree. I don't consider the wrist to be a suitable place for attaching a kill cord for two reasons: it tends to snag on the steering wheel, and it's likely to come off when you need it most.

Clipping onto the lifejacket is secure, but I've found that it still tends to get in the way. Round the knee keeps it secure and out of the way - that's my choice every time.

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Old 03 December 2006, 03:49   #13
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As with all reports its always good to be wise after the event. sorry to hear someone died, but if we worried about every risk we took wouldn't life be boring.
Yep. TThere but for the grace of god go most of us.
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Whats worrying is the fact that the killcord didn't work, which left the two guys without a means of getting out of the water, because the boat carried on its merry way, and subsequently one of the poor guys froze to death.
Irrelevant of alchohol issues or lifejacket issues to me the kill cord working properly might have saved them.
I'd go along with that-particularly as they had apparently just made a sharp turn. The boat can't have been travelling particularly fast at the point of ejection.
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Thats the issue that should be looked at more in my mind, and its probably one that should be thought about more by all us RIBSTERs than anything else.
Being in a high speed boat in rough seas is fun but when you fall out of it some means of getting back in is required. I have often mulled over this because I have personal experience of struggling to get back in to a RIB. Firstly I think we need to make sure the killcord is going to work.
Yes. May I suggest btw if you're wearing slippery clothes (membrane drysuit,oilskins etc that possibly the leg/knee isn't the best place to have it attached unless it's held there in some way.I've had mine slip down on several occasions and it could easily have slipped off my foot if I went overboard at that moment. Maybe the crotchstrap of a lifejacket or a dedicated loop for the cord attached to the knee of the clothing? It'd only be a few minutes job to do with some drysuit glue.
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Then we need a means of getting back on the stationary boat. I don't think swimming is one of those options unless its dead calm. My answer would be to have an extending line on our lifejacket that we could pull on to get ourselves back to the boat. And by extending line I mean one that is perhaps 50 meters long and not one that the yachties use. It might not be feasable most of the time but if your going to have some fun in big waves then I think it should be considered part of your safety equipment along with a lifejacket and for us RIBSTERs a drysuit.
I'm going to disagree with that particular method-simply because as you hit the water there's no garuantee which way you'll land, whether you'll tumble or skip across the surface if at a particularly high speed etc. It's bloody hard to untangle yourself from a rope while in the water (done it and it was NOT a fun incident ) and IMO it'd be even harder if the rope was tensioned.

You're right-the boat isn't going to make more than 50 metres with no power immediately after MOB though.
I DO however have an idea. What about a simple form of line-thrower (spring loaded perhaps?) that would throw a floating line 50 or so metres directly astern-or maybe aimable-controlled by a waterproof car alarm type keyfob with a dsc type cover over the buttons? Something like this Restech pneumatic line thrower with a remote button-or even a cord like a killcord which would be attached to the person nearest the unit.
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Old 03 December 2006, 03:59   #14
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Yep. TThere but for the grace of god go most of us.

I'd go along with that-particularly as they had apparently just made a sharp turn. The boat can't have been travelling particularly fast at the point of ejection.

Yes. May I suggest btw if you're wearing slippery clothes (membrane drysuit,oilskins etc that possibly the leg/knee isn't the best place to have it attached unless it's held there in some way.I've had mine slip down on several occasions and it could easily have slipped off my foot if I went overboard at that moment. Maybe the crotchstrap of a lifejacket or a dedicated loop for the cord attached to the knee of the clothing? It'd only be a few minutes job to do with some drysuit glue.


I'm going to disagree with that particular method-simply because as you hit the water there's no garuantee which way you'll land, whether you'll tumble or skip across the surface if at a particularly high speed etc. It's bloody hard to untangle yourself from a rope while in the water (done it and it was NOT a fun incident ) and IMO it'd be even harder if the rope was tensioned.

You're right-the boat isn't going to make more than 50 metres with no power immediately after MOB though.
I DO however have an idea. What about a simple form of line-thrower (spring loaded perhaps?) that would throw a floating line 50 or so metres directly astern-or maybe aimable-controlled by a waterproof car alarm type keyfob with a dsc type cover over the buttons? Something like this Restech pneumatic line thrower with a remote button-or even a cord like a killcord which would be attached to the person nearest the unit.
Er, I'm hanving enough trouble with consoles, without having to think about mounting a turret on top
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Old 03 December 2006, 04:02   #15
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Er, I'm hanving enough trouble with consoles, without having to think about mounting a turret on top

You couldn't do that-Someone come along and shoot you 8 times in the head

It'd be a simple enough job to attach a line-thrower directly to the a-frame pointing astern though.
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Old 03 December 2006, 05:41   #16
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That's quite a large unit for line throwing

We carry these on the tug at work which are quite a bit smaller - http://www.pwss.com/products/product...137&ProdID=206

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Old 03 December 2006, 05:59   #17
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That's quite a large unit for line throwing

We carry these on the tug at work which are quite a bit smaller - http://www.pwss.com/products/product...137&ProdID=206

-Alex
Are they refillable or one use only? I've never used one.The reason I highlighted the other one is it just needs to be charged with air-ie a lot cheaper.
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Old 03 December 2006, 06:05   #18
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Without seeing the proper report which is usually very detailed it would be unfair to pass judgement on anything that happened that day. This report is almost like a poster. Usually the reports are very detailed and it seems this one is missing much of the finer print.
I agree with that - but on this occassion I think this might be all we are going to get. It is no longer mentioned under the "current investigations" section. Not all incidents result in a detailed investigation/report.
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Old 03 December 2006, 06:21   #19
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I think that you'll find that you're contradicting medical fact here - IIRC you are more at risk of hypothermia if you have been drinking. Where's that Manning bloke when you need him?
Actually, the man you need right now is Doug Stormforce. This came up in conversation last week while I was on one of his sailing yachts - he'd just been to a lecture with the UK's leading cold water expert Mike Tipton, (if any of you have done a First Aid Course or Sea Survival Course and seen the video Cold Water Casualty - that was Mike Tipton) who stated (and I'm sure Doug will correct me if I'm wrong) that alcohol had no effect on how likely you are to suffer hypothermia.
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Old 03 December 2006, 10:32   #20
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A fellow I know from grad school has become one of the worlds best known researchers on hypothermia. He has done extensive cold water immersion studies, more often than not using himself as a lab rat (he did this on Letterman once). Here is a link to 3 'in field' videos he has made with regard to cold water immersion survival. Some very useful info here.

http://www.yukonman.com/cold_water.asp
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