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Old 21 March 2008, 13:13   #1
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Navigation in a rib

I am wondering what methods of navigation do you use that does not need a chartplotter.

i.e. but using compass and a hand held GPS unit.

There are no Tough Charts yet for the west of Ireland. I am think of scanning my chart of clew bay and laminating it into A 4 sizes.

You thoughts and obeservation please

Simple method need only apply
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Old 21 March 2008, 14:00   #2
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In pre chartplotter days I used to colour copy and shrink to A4 Charts and then laminate two A4's back to back. I used a handheld or boat fixed GPS and these for navigation.
Every time I went somewhere new I made up a set for the area and eventualy built up a fair number of them covering every area I operated in. These are now all in the console and are now used as back up to the plotter.
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Old 21 March 2008, 14:03   #3
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Forget it. Not practical. Chart plotters and eye-ball navigation are the only practical methods possible on a pitching, rolling, wet, windy and cramped RIB.

IMO of course.
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Old 21 March 2008, 14:08   #4
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I've got laminated charts, but rarely use them these days. I more or less know my waters now, so it's mainly chartplotter, but if that went down it would be pilotage only. I still carry a chart and compass for real emergency use, but i wouldn't fancy trying it on a rough wet day.
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Old 21 March 2008, 14:11   #5
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bruce B

When you copied the charts did you manage to get the lat and lon in the photocopy?
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Old 21 March 2008, 14:42   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by two stroke mick View Post
When you copied the charts did you manage to get the lat and lon in the photocopy?
Mick
Try Google Earth and turn on the grid so you get lat/long. That is how I make my charts for use with a handheld gps.. You can also mark waypoints, hazards and courses.
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Old 21 March 2008, 15:02   #7
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I use an Ipaq or Mio with GPS and then scan charts in with ozzi explorer.

They cost about £200 but can also be used with TomTom for car sat nav and also do most things a laptop will. Very versatile. You can also chuck the Ordnance Survey maps on there and Google Earth images etc along with aerial photos so it's better than a chart plotter for close in work.

You can buy a waterproof case for them but I bet people can guess what I use.........

I see you say simple methods only but I do find it simple once it's all set up!!!
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Old 21 March 2008, 15:47   #8
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Why not a chartplotter?

They are cheap nowdays, I have a Garmin 178C which you still see on ebay for around £200.00, which is about the same as good handheld or 4 sets of tough charts !
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Old 21 March 2008, 16:27   #9
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Who cares about copyright laws anyway

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Old 21 March 2008, 16:46   #10
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I assume if you have bought a proper chart you can then copy/scan it for your own use - if not why not???
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Old 21 March 2008, 18:24   #11
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I assume if you have bought a proper chart you can then copy/scan it for your own use - if not why not???
I think the technical answer is no. (Because you have bought a chart not a license to reproduce the chart even for your own use). However in reality I can't see the admiralty actually prosecuting someone doing this (especially since tough charts not available in the area).
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Old 21 March 2008, 18:34   #12
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Of course you can navigate with chart and compass the way everyone did pre GPS. You won't be able to do the sort of fancy calculated navigation that can be done on a yacht etc but you can navigate on a small boat when you need to.
You just tend to not cut corners etc on headlands and give things on the chart a wide berth as there are larger errors in your "position" compared to a plotter. How do you think folk did it pre GPS and affordable plotters?
We used to successfully navigate out to wrecks in featureless areas like the Forth with nothing more than a handheld GPS and a laminated chart and in earlier years with nothing more than a compass, laminated chart and a set of transits.
I personally find a plotter a great help compared with the older methods but it doesn't mean you still can't do it the old way, its just harder, less convenient and less accurate.
Technically I don't think you can copy Admiralty charts but for your own use I can't see how anybody could really object.
When I made my copies I got the borders in and shrunk A5 sections of chart to A4 in colour. They are still perfectly legible and are now my backup compass and chart method of getting home if I need to although I am considering a handheld to keep in the safety box as a backup for navigation as I am going to be travelling further off shore with the new boat.
In saying that most of the west coast round here I know well enough to not have a problem getting home in reasonable viz with nothing bar Mk1 eyeball
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Old 21 March 2008, 18:35   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by two stroke mick View Post
I am wondering what methods of navigation do you use that does not need a chartplotter.

i.e. but using compass and a hand held GPS unit.

There are no Tough Charts yet for the west of Ireland. I am think of scanning my chart of clew bay and laminating it into A 4 sizes.

You thoughts and obeservation please

Simple method need only apply
I use Imray charts (I think they are called small craft charts?) which are reasonably water resistant, fold to A4 and fit in a little A4 plastic wallet. Works OK for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris
Why not a chartplotter?

They are cheap nowdays, I have a Garmin 178C which you still see on ebay for around £200.00, which is about the same as good handheld or 4 sets of tough charts !
is that with cartography? I guess the downsides of chartplotters (other than the commonly stated "reliability"/redundancy concerns) are space on the console, and security of leaving high value electronics on the boat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Moore
Forget it. Not practical. Chart plotters and eye-ball navigation are the only practical methods possible on a pitching, rolling, wet, windy and cramped RIB.

IMO of course.
People managed for a long time before chart plotters.
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Old 21 March 2008, 18:40   #14
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A new large area up to date Blue chart is around £160 new, sometimes they come up on ebay cheaper.
I jsut sold both mine for less than half price and went to Navionics gold which was around £100 with the plotter.
Charts ain't cheap.
Personally I would consider getting even a cheap one if you can, even if you have to buy the chart later the base map is usually still of some use.
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Old 22 March 2008, 01:48   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceB View Post
Of course you can navigate with chart and compass the way everyone did pre GPS.
Quote:
How do you think folk did it pre GPS and affordable plotters?
Quote:
We used to successfully navigate out to wrecks in featureless areas like the Forth with nothing more ...than a compass, laminated chart and a set of transits.
Absolutely. It ain't really difficult. Even at Powerboat Level 2 we're teaching people how to navigate both with and without GPS. Of course the reality is that most people use GPS whether or not they have a plotter for pretty well all their navigation - even sometimes, rather frighteningly,for what they should be doing by pilotage - but it's still quite satisfying to know that you can do it "manually" if your system goes down.

Sometimes we use paper if we want to sense-check the GPS - eg if HDOP is more than 4 and we need greater precision than the GPS can give us at that point

Takes up next to no space in a locker, and always on hand if it's needed

We use laminated sections of charts. A3 rather than A4 so that there is a bit more info available, and if you're careful you can always find a way to incorporate lat and long scales even if you're using the intermediate scales rather than the chart edges. On the boat I tend to use a Douglas protractor as the chart instrument of choice - no moving parts to worry about - and of course we'll always have HBC.
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Old 22 March 2008, 05:22   #16
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I use colour photocopied charts, laminated back to back as a just in case measure.

I also draw potentail courses on the chart and label with the compass course for each direction. It has come in handy on one occasion and saves time messing with a protractor.

Tony
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Old 22 March 2008, 09:13   #17
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Spiders wed method of navigation

I was reading about this medhod of navigation. It looks to be very simple and it should be relativly fool proof once the spade work has been put in. Are there any users out there?
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Old 22 March 2008, 09:27   #18
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Yes, regularly use in areas where we launch often and you're right it's dead easy, but only helps if you have a GPS that has just a digital readout. If you've got a chartplotter, a web is no benefit, and if you don't have a GPS at all it's redundant as a method
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Old 22 March 2008, 09:35   #19
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Rib nav

I have a Etrex legend. It will be a while before I have the price of a garmin 550 plotter.
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Old 22 March 2008, 10:39   #20
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OK, can someone tell me what spider's web navigation is?

Ta!
John
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