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Old 04 December 2002, 03:55   #1
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Navigation

Ha Ha... Now that I am a bona fide RIB owner, there's no stopping me ! I plan to exceed all known records for amount of office time wasted posting to Rib-net!

Seriously, though, this one relates to navigation.

I am an experienced yacht sailor (ex- HM Forces staff skipper) and, I fancy, quite a competent chart-user. However, since I have been away from boating for several years while children reach age to be able to enjoy it with me, I am somewhat out of date with latest nav. techniques. Please bear with me if my questions seem naive / stupid!

Family boating in and around Solent, with annual trips to Cornwall and Brittany are what is planned.

Budget does not yet allow purchase of chart plotter (Santa having just coughed up for the boat purchase, the sack is pretty empty as far as I am concerned!)

Budget will run to purchase of hand held GPS, but never having used one on a wet, heaving RIB, the following questions arise:

1)How do you plot a lat / long position with no level surface on the boat (or does one just use waypoints?)

2)How do you stop charts turning into soggy pulp (plastic case? if so, which one?)

3)How waterproof are the Imray charts

4)How waterproof are the Admiralty small craft portfolios?

That's enough questions to be going on with, altho' many others also arise - any thoughts / ideas / suggestions welcome.
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Old 04 December 2002, 04:23   #2
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Welcome! I bet you can't waste as much time on RIBnet as I do . . .

Answers to your questions:

1. How do you plot a lat / long position with no level surface on the boat
You don't if you can possibly help it. Passage planning is the key -- waypoints are indeed the answer. For areas that you will be using regularly I suggest that you mark key positions on your chart and enter them as waypoints into your GPS. That way when the fog does come down suddenly, all you need to do is string the waupoints together into a route to get home.

2. How do you stop charts turning into soggy pulp
Keep them in a dry bag, in a waterproof locker, and don't get them out until you're in the pub

3. How waterproof are the Imray charts
Only slightly

4. How waterproof are the Admiralty small craft portfolios
Worse than Imray

However there is a better option than these two. Get Stanfords charts www.allweathercharts.co.uk which are printed on plastic and are completely waterproof. They don't have the range of coverage to match the others, but do cover all of the south of the UK and Northern France so you should be OK.

For areas covered by these charts I wouldn't consider any others.

You still can't easily plot a lat and long on them in a RIB, but at least they don't dissolve while you are trying.

John
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Old 04 December 2002, 05:54   #3
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I plan to exceed all known records for amount of office time wasted posting to Rib-net!
You'll have to go a dmaned looooong way to beat me there!

1. Yup JK, also you can use 'trackback' on the Garmin systems. I've found that the Garmin 12 is okay to read whilst being bounced around in the little SIB.

2. Scan in the relevant sections of the chart then laminate them. I've found that this works well on Quicksilver where I have almost no storage space.

3. Never tried them

4. Nor these

Keith (how about the Orkney trip then Benjamin?) Hart
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Old 04 December 2002, 07:28   #4
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Keith,
I note that I need a piffling 900 (899 after this one) to catch up with you in the 'posting stakes' - here's working on it!
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Old 04 December 2002, 08:03   #5
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If you use a particular route often then reduce your paper chart or sections to A4 and make a few copies then have it (them) set in sealed plastic;

In addition to a chart and GPS I write a "runway" on A4 which looks something like the rolling road on a GPS showing course , distance mrks and marks either side of but in the proximity of the route line - if you make a few copies then one or two lost or soaked won't matter.

In each case A4 is easier to handle in the rough stuff -a French chart purchased in Cherbourg was totally destroyed in my summer crossing from there to Alderney if I had the time, at least the runway would have assisted
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Old 04 December 2002, 08:03   #6
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Hi again

Keiths idea works well, I use this approch.

I have a chart plotter but never want to be totally depandant on it.

I modify the chart , marking in my own waypoints which are in the plotter/gps.

I then mark of on the laminated chart using a chinorgaph pencil as we past each waypoint. Its easy to do and if the GPS/plotter ever fails you dont have to remember where you was you can easily work out roughly how far you have gone from you last waypoint. When you have finished just wipe of the chinograph pencil marks.

This works well when out of sight of land, but is useful if you can see land as you never know when the visability might get poor.

Regards Gary
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Old 04 December 2002, 08:16   #7
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I also thoroughly recommend laminated A4 colour prints of charts - but dont forget to include the lat/long scale on all prints!
Hand held GPS is fine. We used a Magellan 310 (plus an identical backup) on RB4 last year with all waypoints entered in beforehand. I suggest you get a mounting bracket for it - at least it will stay put in the rough, and you can run it off the boat battery and keep the dry battery for when all else fails.
Just dont expect to be entering new waypoints on a bracket-mounted handheld when underway!
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Old 04 December 2002, 08:26   #8
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How do you stop charts turning into a soggy pulp

We use A4 photocopies in a laminator.

Great for passage planning, listing radio users call signs when working with other boats.
Print from your PC or photocopy (in colour if you can) and then run through a laminator.

A3 works, but often is too big in the wind.
Positive
- Small, easy to store, waterproof, you can do back to back to save the number you need to do, replaceable, cheap & folds into pocket.
Negative
- They show small area and you may need to link charts of small scale together, the scale may change a little in photocopying from your chart, slippery when you stand on them and they sink (no surprise there).

We use them for:
- Passage planning
- Regular routes in and out of port, we draw on the course to steer and waypoints before laminating as a safe route at night if its been a hard day! This takes the worry out of things knowing you have the safest route with you that you planned before leaving the house when you were thinking straight.
- Sailing courses and organisation of safety fleet & radio call signs.

Optional - Leave a margin so you can punch a hole into link groups of them tied together in a small folder.
Make sure that the chart seals or the water will smudge the ink, leave at least 5mm border around paper.

Other benifits, you can eat off of them on the sandy beach!!!

I used them all the time on expedition:
1. Main chart at camp.
2. Full set of laminated copies for the area we were in and the route to drive the 100miles home in my flare / safety box.
3. The routes for the day and a larger scale general chart (to get home if all others lost) in my pocket.

I agree with having the original chart on the boat as its useful to explain to others and see the big picture, but it needs to be waterproof.
Plastic charts are good but catch the wind and fly off if not carefull !!!

If paper, don't let it rot away when the boat is not in use, keep them in a dry bag or in the warm &dry of the house. Map cases from camping shops work (some better than others)
Don't forget a light to read it at night!!!

Tiger
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Old 04 December 2002, 08:54   #9
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Map Seal

There is a good product called Map Seal from http://www.aquaseal.com or you can use a water based poly or clear acrylic as well on paper charts. You coat both side of a chart with a foam roller and it is a good cheap option. cheers
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Old 04 December 2002, 08:57   #10
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Chart plotter is the way forward. If you lose your electrics you lose your fule pump and are then stationary any way, or atleast you do in my boat. You can get laminatos big enough to laminate a whole chart which of course is far to bit to use in a rib tough I have tapped it to the floor behind the seats berfor. The best option is like eveyone has said to use A4 photocopys and waypoints. Pluss a marker on plastic tapped to the concel for writing way points on is a good tip.
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