Multiple Kill Cords - Page 2

Poly · 14 November 2007, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashbypower

Surley, the bulb and sounder would be better in Parallel.
If used in series should the bulb fail then the buzzer would not sound either.
all IMVHO of course

Quite right - good thinking. will possibly make "speccing" the buzzer and bulb more complex for the novice as will no longer be working at 12V - but the buzzer will still need to work at 12V for the scenario you describe.

ashbypower · 14 November 2007, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

Quite right - good thinking. will possibly make "speccing" the buzzer and bulb more complex for the novice as will no longer be working at 12V - but the buzzer will still need to work at 12V for the scenario you describe.

No!! both will now be working @ 12v, 2 componets of the same resistance used in series will halve the voltage. :
It's late and you're in a hotel room, been on the red wine have we???

Poly · 14 November 2007, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashbypower

No!! both will now be working @ 12v, 2 componets of the same resistance used in series will halve the voltage. :
It's late and you're in a hotel room, been on the red wine have we???

weiss beer!

ashbypower · 14 November 2007, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

weiss beer!

Say no more

jwalker · 14 November 2007, 22:30

Not wishing to take anything away from Niel's posts but dunnae use a wee light or a LED or a wee buzzer, you'll never notice the light or hear the buzzer. A big light right in your line of sight and a piezo siren would do the job.

hamster · 14 November 2007, 22:33

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but the RNLI use a similar system on the new Atlantic 85 where each crew member has a kill cord at each seat position which turns on a light on the console in front of the helm if it becomes detached.
Having each killcord connected to stop the engine would potentially be very dangerous if the the engine were to suddenly stop at anytime when the helm is not expecting it.

jwalker · 14 November 2007, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

... but as per my comments above I think it is unlikely to ever be needed. Especially since keeping a good look out in all directions you would soon notice if the other half had disappeared.

Stolen from JF's place.

mike · 14 November 2007, 23:00

If you were to lose someone in a very heavy sea, having the engine suddendly cut out potentially could cause a serious problem, or result in collision type injuries do to sudden loss of power.
I feel the warning idea much more useable.
Alternatively get 2 scooter wing mirrors on to the wrap round (asssuming you have one ) and you then have a verybasic but immediate sourceof reference to are they all there type question.

Poly · 15 November 2007, 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

Not wishing to take anything away from Niel's posts but dunnae use a wee light or a LED or a wee buzzer, you'll never notice the light or hear the buzzer. A big light right in your line of sight and a piezo siren would do the job.

Yes Jeff I would agree with that (even with stinking hangover!). The wiring is the same.

The Led is simply meant as a visual indication that the system is disabled - so I think an LED is OK there - although a bright one that flashes might be better (which is why I put an LED there and a bulb on the other part of the circuit - sorry if that didn't come across).

havener · 15 November 2007, 08:19

Surely if it's perceived as that much of a risk (when doing your risk assessment) would a seat belt or a clip-on be a better idea?

The reason we don't use a similar system on the daughter craft ribs is that the crew, on reaching a casualty, may need to move rapidly to carry out their work.

Aren't we also back to the wonderful Arthur Ransome philosophy of "if not duffers, won't drown" ? ...

Cookee · 15 November 2007, 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

Stolen from JF's place.

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Originally Posted by Zippy
When a boat looks that good who needs tubes!!!

15 November 2007, 11:36	#32
9D280 Member Country: UK - Scotland Boat name: Wildheart Make: Humber/Delta Seasafe Length: 5m + Engine: Merc 60 Clamshell MMSI: 235068449 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,671	on a similar theme..... Anyone ever wired up a "deadman active" lamp? I'm thinking the scenario of my old (nay, ancient) '72 vintage Johnsorude, where the deadman literally just short circuits the low voltage side of the magneto ignition, and is the usual "need cord attatched to hold switch open". Picture the scene in my "unlikely but you know what sod's law is like on a bad day" scenario - you're motoring along, and something random happens like the fuel tank shifts slightly in the swell, and breaks one wire core out the pin on the engine plug. A few mins later as a result of said waves you go over the side - only to discover as the boat hares off without you, that the switch may be closed, but the short is not present due to the broken wire! My thought was a very high resistance type lamp (possibly a neon or an LED with a big resistor?) in parallel with the switch - the voltage from the ignition would keep it lit, showing you there was contact 'tween the switch & the engine. I suspect the juice to run the lamp may however knacker any hope of getting a decent spark...... Any electrical gurus out there like to comment? __________________

15 November 2007, 14:35

#33

jwalker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 9D280

... like to comment?

Wot a worrier. I bet you have difficulty crossing the road.

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15 November 2007, 15:15

#34

Nos4r2

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 9D280

My thought was a very high resistance type lamp (possibly a neon or an LED with a big resistor?) in parallel with the switch - the voltage from the ignition would keep it lit, showing you there was contact 'tween the switch & the engine. I suspect the juice to run the lamp may however knacker any hope of getting a decent spark...... Any electrical gurus out there like to comment?

It wouldn't work. If the switch fails internally or the wires fall off the switch then as long as you still have contact with the light the lamp will stay lit-ie your killcord won't work but the lamp will tell you it's OK.

The only thing that'll tell you if your killcord has failed is taking the cord off and the engine not stopping unless you want to build complex ICs to measure resistance.

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15 November 2007, 15:52

#35

Cookee

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 9D280

Anyone ever wired up a "deadman active" lamp? I'm thinking the scenario of my old (nay, ancient) '72 vintage Johnsorude, where the deadman literally just short circuits the low voltage side of the magneto ignition, and is the usual "need cord attatched to hold switch open".

Picture the scene in my "unlikely but you know what sod's law is like on a bad day" scenario - you're motoring along, and something random happens like the fuel tank shifts slightly in the swell, and breaks one wire core out the pin on the engine plug. A few mins later as a result of said waves you go over the side - only to discover as the boat hares off without you, that the switch may be closed, but the short is not present due to the broken wire!

My thought was a very high resistance type lamp (possibly a neon or an LED with a big resistor?) in parallel with the switch - the voltage from the ignition would keep it lit, showing you there was contact 'tween the switch & the engine. I suspect the juice to run the lamp may however knacker any hope of getting a decent spark...... Any electrical gurus out there like to comment?

How about testing it every time you go out - this should be standard procedure and is often done in the scrutineering process for offshore races, although not - it appears - in South Africa!

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Originally Posted by Zippy
When a boat looks that good who needs tubes!!!

15 November 2007, 18:32	#36
K&S Member Country: UK - Scotland Town: Glasgow Boat name: Riberty Make: xs 650 Length: 6m + Engine: suzuki 175 MMSI: 235063328 Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 377	Many thanks Polwart for taking the time to post your drawings. One question which is bound to show my lack of electrical know how..... Can a dead man switch be wired to be broken circuit when the dead man leash is attached and then live when the leash is removed ( does this make sense so far ?) i'm guessing it is the reverse of the way it works in the control box but is it possible to wire in such a way or do we need to buy a special type of dead man ? My dad would be ashamed he was an electrical engineer ... should have paid more attention i can hear him saying Honest i can drive a boat better than my wiring Thanks again for your help. __________________

15 November 2007, 18:36	#37
ashbypower Member Country: UK - England Town: Salisbury Boat name: Blue C Make: XS 600 Length: 6m + Engine: 125hp Opti MMSI: 235082826/235909566 Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,439	K&S, I think you'll fine HERE near the bottom of the page, the switches (The top Piccy) that will perform the function you talk about. __________________ Brian C APS Marine Centre

15 November 2007, 18:38

#38

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Quote:

Originally Posted by K&S

Many thanks Polwart for taking the time to post your drawings. One question which is bound to show my lack of electrical know how.....

Can a dead man switch be wired to be broken circuit when the dead man leash is attached and then live when the leash is removed ( does this make sense so far ?)
i'm guessing it is the reverse of the way it works in the control box but is it possible to wire in such a way or do we need to buy a special type of dead man ?

My dad would be ashamed he was an electrical engineer ... should have paid more attention i can hear him saying

Honest i can drive a boat better than my wiring

Thanks again for your help.

Thats the way it works on most 2-strokes.

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15 November 2007, 18:55	#39
rickuk3 Member Country: UK - England Town: Leighton Buzzard Length: 5m + Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 270	The kill switches I have are 4 terminals, 1 pair are normally closed and the other pair normally open, so can be used either way. Richard __________________

15 November 2007, 19:06	#40
floater Member Country: UK - England Town: Macclesfield Boat name: Aqua Fresh Make: Zodiac Medline Length: 5m + Engine: 60hp Yamaha MMSI: 235051988 Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 333	re MOB I suppose a Mirror on the consoul would just be tooooo simple __________________ Stripes, we like stripes just need some stars now !