moulds

[gtflash]

a post on bm got me thinking, if you buy a mould for say a 6.5m hull do you buy the rights to make em aswell. also can you stretch it or shrink it and legally build more in the range without pissing off the people that built the mould as they got one the same size as the range ur turning out..???

also anyone know of any forsale?

[Searider]

Ownership of the moulds could quite likely be separate to who owns the rights to the design.

Common deals are to pay a per-boat fee to the owner of the design - ie you pay them for every boat you produce. OR a one off fee for the design where you pay for the design.

Probably best to ask the owner of the moulds who ofns the right to the design and then talk with them about a fair deal.

Consider a mould simply as a tool and not a design.

[Brian]

That's got me confused Duncan.
What would be the point, or the value, of buying a mould if I didn't have the right to actually use it for the purpose for which it was produced i.e. to make a boat hull out of?
Conversly, I don't want "the design" do I?
I would not sell "the design" to a third party. But I would want to make a hull or hulls, sell them and even make another mould from the first mould.

Still, as this is legal stuff, I am bound to be wrong. Is anyone on this forum a M'learned Friend?

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Brian

That's got me confused Duncan.
What would be the point, or the value, of buying a mould if I didn't have the right to actually use it for the purpose for which it was produced i.e. to make a boat hull out of?....

It kind of depends how the mould was *ahem* "acquired" in the first place.... If it was bought from the designer "legit" or was one of them dodgy moulds that was splashed from an existing hull or mould in a less than honest sort of way.....
If the manufacturer is still in business, would he sell off a mould for a current product?

[slimtim]

I would imagine buying a mould would allow you to produce one boat for personal use, although I would guess that you would need permission from the designer to do so (probably the person selling the mould, so it would be part of the deal).

If you wanted to produce more than one boat and sell them on, you then need to come to some sort of arrangement whereby you purchase the rights to the design in a one off payment or pay the designer a % per hull sold.

Its a bit like photographs. If calender company for example bought one of my photos, they could pay for a one off use (which means if they ever wanted to use it again they would pay the fee again) or they could pay a lot more and have the right to use the photograph whenever they please.

Tim

[Brian]

Ah, but Tim, you are not selling a photograph are you? You are selling the right to use the image. Diferent I think.

In the case of the mould, I suspect that (assuming, Jono, it is legitimately acquired), that the purchase of the mould embodies an implit right to make hull(s). And unless the contract of purchase specifically excludes it, that right extends to making and re-selling of the hulls.

The above probably explains why I would never have made a lawyer.

[slimtim]

I am indeed selling the rights to photographs and I reckon you have a good point about the mould! However also think the comment about the mould being a "tool" is a good point...I think I've just managed to confuse myself

[Jono]

Brian,

You come to me and ask me to design and build you a nice new Cat Cracker. I design it and send you the drawings for your approval. You say " Yup that's just what I want".
I then build your nice new plant and provide you with a set of drawings to go with it which you file in a nice big data manual. Ten years down the line, your nice new plant is shagged... tough luck, the warranty is 12 months.. You drag out the drawings and decide you can cut me out of the deal and send those drawings to your local Indian fabricator to knock up another set. Unfortunately, you overlooked the fact that when I quoted you and sold you the plant I put a nice little caveat on the drawing along the lines that these drawings were to build one plant (the one I sold you) and one only. They must not be re-used without the express permission of the designer...Me! ...... Feck! What ya gonna do?...
In an ideal world, yoou ask me nicely and for a not unreasonable fee I allow you to reuse the drawings... Yeah! Right! What happens is, you say " I'm considerably richer than you.... and I'll see you in court......"

One of these days I'm gonna have the balls to stand up and say " OK, I'll see you there then..."....

[Searider]

Brian / Tim,

It depends on what basis you were sold the mould and if the vendor has the rights to the design. If he has the rights to the design - ie paid the one off fee to the designer, then he has the rights and can sell them on to you.

If he is paying a per boat fee for the use of the design then I suspect that he does not own the rights and cannot pass them on to you. In this case the purchaser should contact the designer to be sure all is above board.

If the mould was taken from an existing boat in less than certain circumstances then there could be problems if the designer spots his design back in production.

It's a bit like someone selling a colour copier along with some of Tims photos?

Regards

[slimtim]

Originally Posted by Searider

It's a bit like someone selling a colour copier along with some of Tims photos?

I like the analogy Duncan, but don't give people ideas!

How much does a mould/design have to be changed before it can be classed as a new design therefore no rights to pay? I imagine that the hull form has to change rather than just the length/width etc.

Tim