Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 06 August 2011, 15:43   #1
Member
 
gtflash's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: southampton
Boat name: TOP CAT 2
Make: Scorpion 8.1
Length: 8m +
Engine: 250hp HO
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,496
mooring upwind

I am never show off ish with my boat, but I can handle her well in 90% of my mooring situations, I am happy to trailer her on one of the worst slips in the world without incident or wet feet. I usually travel single handed or with a 5 year old so, am pretty used to coping.

Today I went to a marina and was given the 2nd to last pontoon on starboard side. So my approach was wind and tide behind me, then a tight right turn to moor starboard on. Except getting the ol girl to turn right then go back upwind, was next to impossible. I got the bow up but I couldnt get her bum upwind(which I know) therefore a reverse and shunt in the close quarters and with an empty berth next door, i chickened out and my only option seemed to be to drift to the left hand berth then rope her over.

Im just curious how I could have done it different, all the articles in mags show upwind otherside or downwind easy side. Maybe drop a bow rope over then reverse? I usually use the midship and sort the rest out later
__________________

__________________
gtflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 August 2011, 16:03   #2
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Llanfair pg
Boat name: just about to change
Make: Aircraft
Length: 8m +
Engine: Outboard
MMSI: 13
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
I,m a bit thick!
So the wind and tide were behind
I get that
But was the pontoon on your Starboard or Port on the approach 'bow in'?
Just had some of me brother in laws home brew too
Praps thats why I,m confused!!
__________________

__________________
www.seawake.co.uk
kawasaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 August 2011, 16:14   #3
Member
 
kubcat's Avatar
 
Country: Australia
Town: Sydney
Boat name: Lunasea
Make: Ribtec 890SX
Length: 8m +
Engine: Yamaha ME 421STI x 2
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 472
Maybe head in stern first and then power into the wind turning to port if that makes sense.

Rope and reverse sounds good too.
__________________
kubcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 August 2011, 16:16   #4
Member
 
gtflash's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: southampton
Boat name: TOP CAT 2
Make: Scorpion 8.1
Length: 8m +
Engine: 250hp HO
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,496
wind and tide on stern. THEN turn starboard at 90 degrees and end up starboard side bow in...
__________________
gtflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 August 2011, 16:23   #5
Member
 
martini's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Channel Islands
Town: jersey
Boat name: Martini II
Make: Arctic 28/FC470
Length: 8m +
Engine: twin 225Opti/50hp 2t
MMSI: 235067688
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,023
Many boats are happier coming alongside their port side due to the paddle wheel effect of the prop.

My berth is similar, I have to drive down the row of boats then turn to port to put my port side on to the pontoon. I tend to go slightly past my berth then turn, so I'm carrying some way in the direction of my pontoon rather than drifting past it
__________________
martini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 August 2011, 16:54   #6
Member
 
Erin's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Channel Islands
Town: A large rock
Boat name: La Frette
Make: Osprey Vipermax
Length: 6m +
Engine: 200 Suzzy
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,853
Only thing I can think of is to have a line (about 2/3rd the length of the boat) tied to the bow of your boat, and drop it on the cleat at the end of the finger/pontoon (a bit like a spring line). As you then drive forward perhaps with a little bit of port lock on the steering the bow will get pulled in by the effect of the warp and the stern can be forced in by using the engine.
Erin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 August 2011, 17:24   #7
Member
 
Doug Stormforce's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Southampton
Boat name: Yoda & Obi Wan
Make: Valiant 750 & XS600
Length: 7m +
Engine: 150, 115 HP
MMSI: Various
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,031
GT

The title and the description of the situation conflict, I assume however from the description we are talking mooring downwind and downtide.

You need to break this into two manoeuvres. The first is the approach.

Turning starboard into a starboard side too berth regardless of upwind or downwind should if possible be avoided. This is what I call a closed berth because you can not see the pontoon you are tying to come alongside until late and it involves you making a 90 degree turn instead of approaching at a more sensible angle (say 30 degrees).

An open berth is where you can see the pontoon you want to berth alongside.

Step 1 is therefore to sort out the approcah. Go past your berth and do a 180 on the spot so that you approaching from the other direction. (The 180 in this example should be initiated by turning to port, into wind and tide.

Having got the direction of approach sorted it will now be easier to fix the angle of approach.

Next step is to prepare a crew member and a starboard side stern line. This should be the first line that secures to the dock as this is the line that will stop your boat over shooting once you have finished docking.

The steps so far are very straight forward but willmake the next step easier. The actual coming alongside its self is tricky as you need to get the boat moving faster than the tide in order to give you steerage. This means there will be a lot of speed to take of. The wine however will partly play to your favour as it will hold the bow downwind of you (exactly where you want it). It may be therefore you can live without too much steerage as the wind will keep the boat in the right position for you. Concentrate therefore on the effect of the tide and not the wind for the actual berthing.
__________________
STORMFORCE COACHING
web - www.stormforce.biz
email - coaching@stormforce.biz
tel - 02380 231122
Doug Stormforce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 August 2011, 17:53   #8
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Llanfair pg
Boat name: just about to change
Make: Aircraft
Length: 8m +
Engine: Outboard
MMSI: 13
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce View Post
GT

The title and the description of the situation conflict, The wine however will partly play to your favour
Thats what I meant
I thought it was the 'Home Brew ' taking effect
It's obviously the wine as you say Doug

To be slightly more serious!
If you have to berth down wind and down tide
The approach as Doug says has to different from the 'norm', if there is such a thing
A shallow angle is needed
Parallel in effect
To the pontoon at nil throttle
The wind and tide up yer chuffer will take you there
But the angle of approach must be accurate
As to turning to starboard or whatever
With the elements against you
ie behind you
Then you want to turn against them
Well, the bow will get blown off
SO
So reversing on will be the best solution
I reckon
Into the elements
Your stern will not get blown off as it were
Going astern just on tickover I may add
As Doug says, tiss the angle of 'attack'that is Paramount when berthing 'downhill'
Specially full of wine
__________________
www.seawake.co.uk
kawasaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 August 2011, 04:00   #9
Member
 
gtflash's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: southampton
Boat name: TOP CAT 2
Make: Scorpion 8.1
Length: 8m +
Engine: 250hp HO
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,496
Im confused by the upwind and downwind now.... Upwind is not making the boat move up into the wind?? drunken ribneting! WOW my life is exciting.

Doug, it was a closed pontoon, and yes I couldnt see it until I got there plus a 40fter was moored before it. However the empty mooring to the left or port was the end of the road, of the dead end of the pontoon, so going past, turning round 180 did not appear to be an option, especially as i was aware the left hand stern of my boat would drift with the wind and tide mid 180 into the end of the pontoon. Therefore coming into the wind was not an option, nor asking a mate for help, as yesterday I did not have any .

How would turning 180 to port help? Im a little unsure why, I suppose I should have done it before the berth?

I did have front rear and midship ropes all ready. I am happy I chose to allow the boat to drift, controlled the port stern from slamming, with throttle, then pulled it over, however if that wasnt an option Id love to have a clear answer in my head. Tell them I want another berth?? Interesting feedback thanks
__________________
gtflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 August 2011, 04:01   #10
Member
 
gtflash's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: southampton
Boat name: TOP CAT 2
Make: Scorpion 8.1
Length: 8m +
Engine: 250hp HO
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasaki View Post
Thats what I meant
I thought it was the 'Home Brew ' taking effect
It's obviously the wine as you say Doug

To be slightly more serious!
If you have to berth down wind and down tide
The approach as Doug says has to different from the 'norm', if there is such a thing
A shallow angle is needed
Parallel in effect
To the pontoon at nil throttle
The wind and tide up yer chuffer will take you there
But the angle of approach must be accurate
As to turning to starboard or whatever
With the elements against you
ie behind you
Then you want to turn against them
Well, the bow will get blown off
SO
So reversing on will be the best solution
I reckon
Into the elements
Your stern will not get blown off as it were
Going astern just on tickover I may add
As Doug says, tiss the angle of 'attack'that is Paramount when berthing 'downhill'
Specially full of wine

Think I need to practice stern berthing, never really done it, although she steers very well backward....
__________________
gtflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 August 2011, 04:35   #11
Member
 
gtflash's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: southampton
Boat name: TOP CAT 2
Make: Scorpion 8.1
Length: 8m +
Engine: 250hp HO
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,496
The upwind/downwind penny has just dropped...
__________________
gtflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 August 2011, 10:54   #12
Member
 
Doug Stormforce's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Southampton
Boat name: Yoda & Obi Wan
Make: Valiant 750 & XS600
Length: 7m +
Engine: 150, 115 HP
MMSI: Various
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtflash View Post
Im confused by the upwind and downwind now.... Upwind is not making the boat move up into the wind?? drunken ribneting! WOW my life is exciting.

Doug, it was a closed pontoon, and yes I couldnt see it until I got there plus a 40fter was moored before it. However the empty mooring to the left or port was the end of the road, of the dead end of the pontoon, so going past, turning round 180 did not appear to be an option, especially as i was aware the left hand stern of my boat would drift with the wind and tide mid 180 into the end of the pontoon. Therefore coming into the wind was not an option, nor asking a mate for help, as yesterday I did not have any .

How would turning 180 to port help? Im a little unsure why, I suppose I should have done it before the berth?

I did have front rear and midship ropes all ready. I am happy I chose to allow the boat to drift, controlled the port stern from slamming, with throttle, then pulled it over, however if that wasnt an option Id love to have a clear answer in my head. Tell them I want another berth?? Interesting feedback thanks
.

There are a few principles that are well worth getting in to your head/.

1/. TIDE- the whole boat moves equally with the tide, i.e. the bow and stern will both move downtide at the same rate regardless of which way the boat is facing. When you hear phrases i.e. the tide caught my stern the person talking is talking nonsense, the tide catches the whole boat equally.

2/. WIND- The wind will blow the whole boat down wind but it will blow the bow downwind far faster then the stern (as the stern has more boat, engine, rudder etc in the water providing resistance). The bow therefore will eventually end up downwind of the stern.

WIND AND TIDE DO NOT THEREFORE HAVE THE EFFECT ON THE BOAT

3/. REVERSING- If you try reversing into the wind the wind will hold the bow down wind of you (see point 2) and effectively allow you to reverse in a straight line easily. If however you reverse downwind slowly the wind will blow you bow of and force you to use more revs to go in a straight line. For this reason stern first into down wind and down tide berths is not generally a good idea but stern first into upwind berths works quite well.

4/. STEERAGE To have steerage (and therefore control) you need water passing over your rudder (or in the case of an outboard over the engine itself as it is your rudder). If therefore you point the boat into the tide and apply some reverse you will be moving forward through the water and have steerage. It may be however you are actually stationary in relation to the ground although you are moving through the water which is moving against you. In this instance you have plenty steerage and plenty control. This is one of the key reasons we prefer to berth into the tide. The opposite is berthing downtide. Say the tide is doing 2 knots and your boat in neutral you will have a 2 knot ground speed but you will have no steerage. To gain steerage you need to put revs on, which then results in a 3 or 4 knot ground speed. (and therefore 3 or 4 knots of speed towards the pontoon or any hazards. Not ideal!

4/. TURNING. If doing a 180 degree turn in a confined space you initially have to decide wether to turn port or starboard. If you turn downtide, you will be very quickly pushed towards your downtide hazard. If however you turn uptide you will make far less progress towards your up tide hazard (as tide is pushing you away from it) and you will have more steerage for lower ground speed (see above). In a knot or more of tide it should be possible to tun into the tide with low revs and short bursts of forward and neutral without actually making any progress over the ground. Ideally therefore we turn into tide.

Hopefully the above point answer several of your questions.

Going back to your original question and factoring in that you were at the end of the fairway with no room to turn around, I would sugsget going stern first down the uptide side of the fairway. As you slow down the wind will turn you bow downwind. Once your stern has cleared the pontoon you want and it starts to become open allow the wind to blow your bow further downwind as you start to drive slowly into the berth. If it goes wrong simply reverse uptide and upwind, re align and go again. Remember the wind will always put your bow downwind of you so all you have to factor in is your gear, revs and the tide.

As the berth next to you is also empty there is alway the option to stern first ferry glide in the last bit to straighten her up.

That's probably about as much as i can usefully explain in text without some images or better still a live demo. This is all stuff we cover on the Powerboat Level 2 and Dayskipper Courses.
__________________
STORMFORCE COACHING
web - www.stormforce.biz
email - coaching@stormforce.biz
tel - 02380 231122
Doug Stormforce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 August 2011, 16:36   #13
Member
 
gtflash's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: southampton
Boat name: TOP CAT 2
Make: Scorpion 8.1
Length: 8m +
Engine: 250hp HO
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,496
Thanks Doug

I have done PB2, however frim discussions with friends, the only issue with doing PB2 is its, usually in a school boat, not your own (in my case almost half length) PLUS the instructor naturally takes you to his best spot in same marina, so its very practiced! I am not critisising all, infact I loved my PB2. Id reccomend anyone who does it should do it in their own boat!
__________________

__________________
gtflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×