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Old 06 September 2006, 10:18   #1
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Mooring Question

If a boat was left on someone's mooring - and the owner of that mooring came back - tied his own boat on his mooring and left the other boat tied on the back of his boat,

The boat went missing over night, who's fault is it??

Is it the owner of the mooring for untying the boat?

or the owner of the visiting boat for tying onto someone elses mooring???


This actually happened in abersoch last week and i was asked the question, so i thought id find out the actual answer

can any one help???


Thanks Sammo
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Old 06 September 2006, 11:36   #2
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It is the fault of the visiting boat.

When the owner of the berth returns, if someone is on their mooring (or in their berth in the case of a marina berth) it is mighty annoying. They are under no moral obligation to ensure the safety, or otherwise, of the boat in their space.

They should tie it up elsewhere but if its tough s**t if anything untoward happens to it.
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Old 06 September 2006, 11:49   #3
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We once tied up a boat we had a few years ago to a free mooring, the owner came back to his mooring, cast our boat adrift and tied his up.

Wern't best pleased but what can you do. We were in the wrong.

Harry
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Old 06 September 2006, 12:57   #4
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Thanks guys

That's all I wanted to know

Sammo
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Old 06 September 2006, 15:46   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Moore
They are under no moral obligation to ensure the safety, or otherwise, of the boat in their space.
Au contraire, IMvHO.

If the returning "owner" (who is probably only leasing, or licensed to use, the space) doesn't exercise due care and attention, then he or she is being negligent. And if by moving the other boat he or she creates a hazard to other craft or people, then even more so. I believe that in this situation, the berth-holder should act with caution and treat the other boat as he would his own.

There's a lot to be said for "treat others as you would like to be treated yourself". And who knows what may have happened to the visitor - medical emergency for example?
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Old 06 September 2006, 16:02   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simmons0
We once tied up a boat we had a few years ago to a free mooring, the owner came back to his mooring, cast our boat adrift and tied his up.

Wern't best pleased but what can you do. We were in the wrong.

Harry
If he cast your boat adrift and it subsequently suffered damage I'm fairly sure he'd be guilty of the criminal offence of causing criminal damage. The damage of course wouldn't be deliberate but if someone is 'reckless' as to whether such damage is caused ( and surely casting a boat off to its fate is reckless) they're guilty.
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Old 06 September 2006, 16:09   #7
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Thats assuming someone didn't claim salvage of your boat after finding it floating unattended I prersume? Or is that just hearsay?
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Old 06 September 2006, 16:13   #8
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I think that "just finding" a boat doesn't count for much. Salvage has to be presented to the official "Receiver of Wreck" who may make an award to the finder, which is supposed to be proportional to the amount of trouble (and/or danger) the finder went to in the course of salvage.
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Old 06 September 2006, 16:19   #9
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I am inclined to agree with RichardB - there may be no obligation to do something responsible with the boat - but it doesn't make it reasonable not to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Moore
They are under no moral obligation to ensure the safety, or otherwise, of the boat in their space.

They should tie it up elsewhere but if its tough s**t if anything untoward happens to it.
Andy - I think you need to check the meaning of moral. I would say they certainly have a moral obligation to look after it.

Is it illegal? possibly not
Is it bad seamanship? probably

if there is a boat cast adrift (either intentionally or recklessly) it will become a hazard to shipping and could result in the needless launching of lifeboats etc to deal with it...
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Old 06 September 2006, 16:36   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwart

Is it illegal? possibly not
Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear, casting the boat adrift isn't illegal, If it finishes up damaged, anything from gelcoat scratches to a total loss, then yes I think the person who released it may well lay themselves open to a criminal damage charge.
The test would be that if an ordinary man in the street would think it reckless to release a boat from a mooring and for it to subsequently sustain damage the offence would be complete.
I'd assume we'd all say yes it was and I suspect the 'ordinary' man would too.
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Old 07 September 2006, 03:17   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwart
Andy - I think you need to check the meaning of moral. I would say they certainly have a moral obligation to look after it.
I am coming from someone who has a marina berth, so the situation is slightly different to a swinging mooring in that one cannot cast the offending boat adrift.

To cast a boat adrift from a swinging mooring would be extremely wreckless and not something I would advocate. But neither would I 'treat the boat as I would my own' in this particular situation.
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Old 07 September 2006, 08:57   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Moore
I am coming from someone who has a marina berth, so the situation is slightly different to a swinging mooring in that one cannot cast the offending boat adrift.

To cast a boat adrift from a swinging mooring would be extremely wreckless and not something I would advocate. But neither would I 'treat the boat as I would my own' in this particular situation.
Try telling the French that....

When I was 13 a frog boat came back to his berth in Cherbourg Marina and found me alone in my father's 30' yacht. He forced me out of the berth in a busy marina by untying the lines and pushing the yacht out while screaming what I assume was abuse. Luckily I was savvy enough to have the engine running before he finished and spent 1/2 an hour cruising around until my parents came back...
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Old 07 September 2006, 13:56   #13
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i think the problem here would be proving that someone had cast your boat adrift, the mooring owner is going to say he found the berth empty....
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Old 07 September 2006, 14:18   #14
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Av a bit of savvy.......!!!

Forgive me folks, but it seems to me like we're a bit wide of the mark here. My boat is my pride and joy. There's No'oooo way I'd tie it up on any mooring and leave it unattended unless i'd first clarified;

1) Who owned the mooring ?
2) Could I use it ?
3) What we're any conditions / restrictions / issues around leaving the boat there
4) I'd also ensure the owner understood when i'd be back, had my contact details and I had his / hers

If i didnt have any of the above, I wouldnt use the mooring. On our recent trip to Scotland, with a fellow ribster, when visiting tobermory one of us stayed with the boats all of the time, even though we we're only going to be a matter on 30 minutes to an hour at the most. I wont trust my rib to anyone else i dont know, and I'd never leave it in any situation that could result in the boat being compromised.

The only exception to this would be the 'unthinkable' event - what ever that might be, where there was simply no other alternative. But it would only be done as an out and out last resort.

Steve
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Old 07 September 2006, 14:43   #15
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[QUOTE=Stormchild] Forgive me folks, but it seems to me like we're a bit wide of the mark here. My boat is my pride and joy. There's No'oooo way I'd tie it up on any mooring and leave it unattended unless i'd first clarified;

Spot on Stormchild If you value it leave it at your peril! And as before It is down to he who accuses to prove it!!: damage negligence etc.
Don't leave it where it isn't safe! Remember the old motto "lock it or Lose it!" One thing is for sure your insurance co, will stick it on you if they can't stick it on someone else !
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Old 07 September 2006, 17:37   #16
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This is another thread that has recently been hashed about on a US boat forum. In that particular case, someone came back to find their slip occupied. Replies (as is the norm) ranged from casting the squatter free to lighting it afire and casting it free to moving it to another empty slip, to simply tying your boat up at the fuel dick until things get sorted.

In the case of many marinas here, they'll rent your slip out if it appears you'll be gone for a while. In this case, the Marina misjudged the duration of the trip. The offending boat was in no way wrong, and it was all corrected the next day, so the poster only had to find (and put up with) a new location for the night.

The posts that caught my attention were those implying that there might have been some sort of emergency, and the visitor grabbed the first spot they could. Makes sense, and I'd feel pretty bad if I cast off someone's boat while their spouse was in the emergency room.

A little consideration, I think, goes a long ways.

jky
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Old 07 September 2006, 17:50   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild
one of us stayed with the boats all of the time, even though we we're only going to be a matter on 30 minutes to an hour at the most. I wont trust my rib to anyone else i dont know, and I'd never leave it in any situation that could result in the boat being compromised.

The only exception to this would be the 'unthinkable' event - what ever that might be, where there was simply no other alternative. But it would only be done as an out and out last resort.

Steve
Can't agree more. If I leave mine anywhere near a beach I won't go out of sight of it either.For some reason tourists/swimmers and particularly pre-teen kids make a beeline for boats when they are moored and stand/swim/play near them in the water.
I've had a couple of rows with people because they've been stood next to my skeg while the engine's tilted in shallow water or their kids have been trying to swim under my hull. They don't seem to understand that it's dangerous and roped off bathing areas are there for a reason...
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Old 10 September 2006, 16:00   #18
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Agreed, we're always plagued by the comfor'ts.....

Comfor't day, comfor't weekend, comfor't holidays..... But for some reason they council in East Yorks won't or cant segregate an area of beach where bathing isnt permitted, and they only put up cautionary signage to alert 'comfort's' that boats will be using the launching area's. Inevitably there are problems. One kid naffed of with my Jobe 'The Giant Ringo' which I'd left on the beach, close to the area we were using as a pick up / drop off point...... he was about 10 - his dad was around to have a word with when I went to get it back - which was a shame.
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Old 10 September 2006, 16:56   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild
Comfor't day, comfor't weekend, comfor't holidays..... But for some reason they council in East Yorks won't or cant segregate an area of beach where bathing isnt permitted, and they only put up cautionary signage to alert 'comfort's' that boats will be using the launching area's. Inevitably there are problems. One kid naffed of with my Jobe 'The Giant Ringo' which I'd left on the beach, close to the area we were using as a pick up / drop off point...... he was about 10 - his dad was around to have a word with when I went to get it back - which was a shame.

Round South Beach where that grotty arcade is?
We were in Brid on Sunday/Monday visiting some mates and I used to spend a lot of time up there. I gotta sympathise with you on that-the tourists there seem to have even less of a clue than anywhere else apart from North Cornwall.
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Old 10 September 2006, 17:36   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild
he was about 10 - his dad was around to have a word with when I went to get it back - which was a shame.
Hey thats a first you found a scrotes Dad. You should be in charge of the CSA or whatever its called now.
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