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Old 04 July 2014, 16:16   #21
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I'd want a flag on it...

So a weight on the end of a pole with a float 2/3rd of way down and a flag on top.

Bamboo seems very flexible and easy to snap.

I've seen a 1 bucket with pole shoved through it and filled with expanding foam used to effect. B &q buckets are orange. You could use a length of white sink drain pipe as the pole...

Blue peter eat your heart out . What do I do with the empty washing up bottle


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Old 04 July 2014, 18:24   #22
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and make sure the riser rope is sinking type or if using floating add a few weights to make it sink
a few of the local potters like to use the floating rope although my outboard and knife didnt like them last time i went past and the potters couldnt find there pots when they returned
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Old 05 July 2014, 02:00   #23
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and make sure the riser rope is sinking type or if using floating add a few weights to make it sink

a few of the local potters like to use the floating rope although my outboard and knife didnt like them last time i went past and the potters couldnt find there pots when they returned

Yes had this debate on my 'what rope ' thread . I have gone for the balanced view of bigmuz7 and others and am going to use floating rope but taking their advice of weighting it down 6 foot from the marker bouy .


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Old 05 July 2014, 02:55   #24
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Anyone heading to the west coast and Outer Hebrides only needs to scan the rocky coastline for flotsam and jetsam. Plenty fluorescent bright pink buoys are washed up regularly. Remember finding one that (I'm not joking) was a good 5-6' in diameter. Had to cut it loose - it was bigger than the boat at the time!
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Old 05 July 2014, 03:05   #25
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Anyone heading to the west coast and Outer Hebrides only needs to scan the rocky coastline for flotsam and jetsam. Plenty fluorescent bright pink buoys are washed up regularly. Remember finding one that (I'm not joking) was a good 5-6' in diameter. Had to cut it loose - it was bigger than the boat at the time!

Now that's recycling or tidying up . Looks like football in an onion bag until I come across a free upgrade .



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Old 05 July 2014, 03:43   #26
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Oi! I might take the p1ss out of all & sundry, but food is serious stuff. Conger is vv good when fresh. Take the solid middle section out of the fish, look at the end & you'll see the spine which is cross shaped. Take off the fillets on the 4 sides of the spine & you end up with long pieces of solid white meaty fish. Cut it into slices about 3/4" thick & you have round medallions. Dip in beaten egg & then flour & shallow fry in butter. Don't over cook, serve with a squeeze of lemon & a good grind of black pepper & sea salt. Enjoy on a Normandy campsite overlooking Omaha beach, with good bread & chilled Normandy farmhouse cider, easy Killing the buggers is a different matter
Bugger that - chop it accross the body into round steaks, drop them in butter, garlic and milk and place into a warm oven covered in foil.

40 minutes later it'll be lovely.......
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Old 06 July 2014, 07:00   #27
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Blue peter eat your heart out . What do I do with the empty washing up bottle
Three of them taped together with a garden cane shoved through the gap between the three... - flag sorted! A 2L coke bottle might work better as the seal would be better...

Seriously - the football in the onion net will work. BUT I'd be concerned that is kind of untested. The net being the unknown. Presume you weren't actually going to use an old bag of onions... Need to make sure the hole in the net is small enough to not let ball escape, even if the ball shrinks a wee bit (it will be colder in the water). Likewise the net needs to take whatever strain it may get on it. A standard football is about 4 litres of air so can support 4kg of weight. So firstly your line weight needs to be far less than that. 1kg would be more than enough. However, by my calculation that means if you got your rope length wrong by a meter and the ball ended up suspended just below the surface it would have an upwards pull of 40N which is the same as hanging a 4kg weight from it. But there will be waves which I think means you'll get lots of jerking would you expect a small net to cope with 4 bags of sugar being bounced along from it for several hours?

You could probably do something with paracord. Wouldn't be that expensive but a lot of knot tying?

OK so no-one dies if you net fails but you loose your ground gear worth some money and you were thinking of two creels.

I think I'd be tempted to lay a bouy (football) with a separately roped flag with rope going to the weight. Both to the creel. Then a link to the second creel and then back up to another bouy and flag. I'd then use it as an opportunity to play with 2 different bouy and 2 different flag configurations to test what works. Making sure at least 1 of the four is absolutely belt and braces so not going to go anywhere so you can (a) retrieve it all and (b) retrieve whats left of any failed bits to understand what happened... ...one of the curiosities of what happened to whispers is that we don't know if it floated away, broke its bouy or was caught in a prop or sliced free by a commercial operator...
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Old 06 July 2014, 11:39   #28
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Three of them taped together with a garden cane shoved through the gap between the three... - flag sorted! A 2L coke bottle might work better as the seal would be better...



Seriously - the football in the onion net will work. BUT I'd be concerned that is kind of untested. The net being the unknown. Presume you weren't actually going to use an old bag of onions... Need to make sure the hole in the net is small enough to not let ball escape, even if the ball shrinks a wee bit (it will be colder in the water). Likewise the net needs to take whatever strain it may get on it. A standard football is about 4 litres of air so can support 4kg of weight. So firstly your line weight needs to be far less than that. 1kg would be more than enough. However, by my calculation that means if you got your rope length wrong by a meter and the ball ended up suspended just below the surface it would have an upwards pull of 40N which is the same as hanging a 4kg weight from it. But there will be waves which I think means you'll get lots of jerking would you expect a small net to cope with 4 bags of sugar being bounced along from it for several hours?



You could probably do something with paracord. Wouldn't be that expensive but a lot of knot tying?



OK so no-one dies if you net fails but you loose your ground gear worth some money and you were thinking of two creels.



I think I'd be tempted to lay a bouy (football) with a separately roped flag with rope going to the weight. Both to the creel. Then a link to the second creel and then back up to another bouy and flag. I'd then use it as an opportunity to play with 2 different bouy and 2 different flag configurations to test what works. Making sure at least 1 of the four is absolutely belt and braces so not going to go anywhere so you can (a) retrieve it all and (b) retrieve whats left of any failed bits to understand what happened... ...one of the curiosities of what happened to whispers is that we don't know if it floated away, broke its bouy or was caught in a prop or sliced free by a commercial operator...

First off thanks for taking the time to help . I think I kept up with with your thoughts . No I was not talking literally when mentioning onion bags it's an old term for football nets .
I am going to use floating rope waited down at 6 foot so if I am getting this right the weight on the bouy will be less . What I use to hold football I am not sure .

it may end up easier to buy two 9" bouys . In terms of possibly loosing my marker yes I have paid good money for the pots and would be seriously pi**ed if I lost them .

Am I barking mad in thinking of having a marker rope and bouy at each end of the line of three pots so if one fails I have another ?


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Old 06 July 2014, 13:56   #29
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So if you get the length of line right the the weight of the weight minus the buoyancy of the line will be the normal force on the buoy... Plus any wind / tidal forces.

But if you get the length a wee bit short the at high tide either the creel is lifted up (if the creel weighs less than the buoyancy of the buoy) or the buoy is submerged (if the creel + line weight weighs more than the buoyancy). The latter is probably better as it means your creel doesn't go for a walk. But it does increase the risk of a prop strike... Depending where you are chucking it...
In the latter case there is the equivalent pull on the rope as if it was hanging a 4kg weight from it. I think with some sense you can make sure your net can hold 4kg but it becomes like hanging 4kg on it while bouncing on a trampoline... So there will be lots of jerky 4kg as wave action hits it...

You may think you are smart enough to avoid laying with too short a rope. But...

If you are putting a weight at 6ft you don't want that to reach the bottom. So you are in 6ft of water at least. The tidal range could be 2-3m. So you would want somewhere between an extra 6 + 12ft of line beyond the weight. BUT if that's 12ft then at low tide you would have line going from buoy > weight > float to surface > creel

So you will want to put less line than that out... Which risks the buoy going under...

But even if you get optimal line and weight it only takes a twist round a rock to loose 2 or 3ft...


But I think a buoy at each end of the line makes sense...

If there is any risk of traffic in the area I think a flag is a good plan though... You need enough time for the WAFI to see it and move...
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Old 06 July 2014, 15:15   #30
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So if you get the length of line right the the weight of the weight minus the buoyancy of the line will be the normal force on the buoy... Plus any wind / tidal forces.

But if you get the length a wee bit short the at high tide either the creel is lifted up (if the creel weighs less than the buoyancy of the buoy) or the buoy is submerged (if the creel + line weight weighs more than the buoyancy). The latter is probably better as it means your creel doesn't go for a walk. But it does increase the risk of a prop strike... Depending where you are chucking it...
In the latter case there is the equivalent pull on the rope as if it was hanging a 4kg weight from it. I think with some sense you can make sure your net can hold 4kg but it becomes like hanging 4kg on it while bouncing on a trampoline... So there will be lots of jerky 4kg as wave action hits it...

You may think you are smart enough to avoid laying with too short a rope. But...

If you are putting a weight at 6ft you don't want that to reach the bottom. So you are in 6ft of water at least. The tidal range could be 2-3m. So you would want somewhere between an extra 6 + 12ft of line beyond the weight. BUT if that's 12ft then at low tide you would have line going from buoy > weight > float to surface > creel

So you will want to put less line than that out... Which risks the buoy going under...

But even if you get optimal line and weight it only takes a twist round a rock to loose 2 or 3ft...


But I think a buoy at each end of the line makes sense...

If there is any risk of traffic in the area I think a flag is a good plan though... You need enough time for the WAFI to see it and move...

Thanks again all makes sense and although there is no substitute for actual experience it's good to get an idea first . My mate picked my pots up . The lobster one looks five times the size in the flesh . So that will be fun in 4.8 m .

When we get to jura I will go out and do a scout round the coast and suss tides and depths etc at the same time as catching mackerel for first meal and bait .

Can't wait to give it a go . My mates in the village ( land locked derbyshire) all laughed at my mid life crisis rib buying antics . You can imagine their reaction when they saw me unloading lobster pots !!

But then bar a couple they all go to Spain Portugal for bog standard holidays so they are not going to get it are they




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