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Old 10 October 2013, 16:02   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris.moody View Post
A hypothermic person in the water will often not want to get into the safety boat and you have to take control of the situation as safety boat crew. Also a sailor not coping with the sea conditions will often not want to be taken ashore.
You're absolutely right. I rescued two dinghy sailors from a similar situation and in similar weather conditions about two years ago. Their behaviour at the scene was completely irrational and I had to get Jersey Coastguard on the radio to tell them in no uncertain terms to get in my boat and let me tow theirs to the marina else they would have to be forcibly rescued by the St. Helier lifeboat. Even then it took a fair while before they complied; they wanted to remain in the sea and for me to tow their boat onto a lee shore. Needless to say I received no thanks whatsoever for my troubles from those two.
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Old 11 October 2013, 06:48   #52
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.........No "pro forma" can ever be used in a situation like this, even although some methods (see RYA rescue boat course or your local equivalent) can be proven to work better than others in most situations. .......
Agreed.

In this instance, I'm sure the rescue boat cox quickly worked out that the quickest way to get to the person in the water was to pull the dinghy clear of the catamaran. Slavishly following the 'get at the person first' mantra risked incapacitating the rescue boat in my opinion - and the rescue cox was obviously of the same opinion.

I may be old fashioned, but I've always understood that the skipper of the dinghy in difficulty is in charge, not the rescue boat, until such time as it becomes apparent that the skipper and crew cannot sort themselves out, either because of exhaustion or the effects of cold water. In my experience, one then gets a nod or a wan smile - and a thank you when they're hauled aboard. I'm assuming of course that the sailors are adults. If the sailors are children, or complete beginners, and the rescue boat is involved in training, then that's a different scenario altogether.
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Old 11 October 2013, 07:59   #53
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Slavishly following the 'get at the person first' mantra risked incapacitating the rescue boat in my opinion - and the rescue cox was obviously of the same opinion.
Can you explain your logic, i cant see how getting the person first would risk incapacitating the boat, not from a which way round you do it, but how the boat is more likely to get into difficulties?

Quote:
I may be old fashioned, but I've always understood that the skipper of the dinghy in difficulty is in charge, not the rescue boat, until such time as it becomes apparent that the skipper and crew cannot sort themselves
If they are in difficulty, then by definition they are not in charge/control, i don't mean they have simply capsized, that's not in difficulty in my world.

A safety boat has the whole fleet to consider not just one vessel, the coxn has a better overview of the whole situation.
I am assuming the coxn is reasonably/trained experienced or has a experienced/trained crew to advise, if not they they shouldn't be out anyway.
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Old 11 October 2013, 08:22   #54
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Not unless you were in the US in 98
Nope, and I beat you by about 10 years!


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but oppies are the same the world over bathtubs, with hankies
That's a bit harsh! The class has spawned some bloody good sailors over the last 20 years.

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Can you explain your logic, i cant see how getting the person first would risk incapacitating the boat, not from a which way round you do it, but how the boat is more likely to get into difficulties?
In this instance I can see a mooring (and it's associated underwater warp), two "air foul" lines connecting same to the yacht at a nice height to foul the seat backs / console / take the rib helm over the side, at least one mainsheet, possibly a couple of spinny sheets / halliard and if it's not a single hander a couple of jib sheets floating about (unsseen in those conditions) just below the surface. Oh, and being borne down on a solid object by tide & wind on top of the thing you are trying to rescue.

Apart from those small items I see nothing that would concern me about the safety of the rib Especially as the dinghy crew (or wetsuitted rescue crew) is obviously fit, well & assisting in the untanglement!






Has anyone thought that the injured / hypothermic / whatever dinghy crew may already be ashore by another rib & this is a recovery excersise 2 hrs later??
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Old 11 October 2013, 08:59   #55
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Oh i think oppies are great, but still bathtubs with hankies

The point i was trying to illustrate was that to get in close enough to get either boat or person you run the risk of getting fouled.
Getting the person first simply means they are out of the danger zone sooner (i would have personally used a throw line to get them out of the mix if glass wire rope and chain).
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Old 22 October 2013, 11:40   #56
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Long time safety boat cox and ILB helm - score one for the safeties from me in this case too.

Only point I would challenge is the setup of the rib for towing, we always had bridles on the transom. Wouldn't fancy the "here - hold this" method shown!

Agree with some posters re. nosing in, but given the slop, breeze, tide and size of the safety boat not sure the welly would have been sufficient in reverse to get back out.
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Old 22 October 2013, 13:37   #57
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It's the bit at about 12 seconds I wasn't keen on — the prop looks too close for my liking. I just can't work out what the best alternative is with all that wind and tide.

After that, the tow is a bit unusual but there's plenty of careful observation and a second safety boat seconds away downstream. It's not as if I haven't done some abnormal ones myself.
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Old 23 October 2013, 04:07   #58
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One thing not picked up elsewhere, the tow line was attached to the hand hold of the seat, some 4 feet above the waterline.

The risk of capsizing the safety boat are huge and you can see the bow lifting as the helm applies power.
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