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Old 07 October 2009, 05:08   #51
JSP
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I've not had chance to read all this thread. I think there's some very valid points been made about level of experience required when doing safety work and the points about the club.

I just feel it for the kids, they would have had the money spent already in their heads as the week went on. And to not get it in the end would have been a big downer for them. Poor buggers.
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Old 07 October 2009, 05:37   #52
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I've not had chance to read all this thread. I think there's some very valid points been made about level of experience required when doing safety work and the points about the club.

I just feel it for the kids, they would have had the money spent already in their heads as the week went on. And to not get it in the end would have been a big downer for them. Poor buggers.
You taking yours next year mate, easy 800 and no one has yet to say what age you can't take....
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Old 07 October 2009, 05:38   #53
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You taking yours next year mate, easy 800 and no one has yet to say what age you can't take....
Naa they'll be too busy up 't chimney mate.
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Old 07 October 2009, 05:52   #54
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Naa they'll be too busy up 't chimney mate.
Aye lad, I'm just off out to get some mannequins and a load of old inflatables, easy money this safety boat lark.
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Old 07 October 2009, 05:53   #55
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Old 07 October 2009, 06:03   #56
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I think the boat was required to be coded (I stand to be corrected by one of the commercial members) for the following reasons.

1. It was clearly a commercial arrangement.
2. The Code (of Practice for Small Commercial Vessels) applies to any size of boat up to 24m that "goes to sea".
3. "to sea" means "beyond category D waters or category C waters if there are no category D waters"

Category C and D waters have the following meanings

Quote:
Category C: Tidal rivers and estuaries and
large, deep lakes and lochs where the
significant wave height could not be expected
to exceed 1.2 metres at any time.

Category D: Tidal rivers and estuaries where
the significant wave height could not be
expected to exceed 2.0 metres at any time.
So if the boat was used "at sea" and was uncoded, the skipper/owner was breaking the law (probably the Club was complicit).

The Code stipulates that on a commercial vessel operating in Category 4 (up to 20 miles from a safe haven), the skipper is required to have minimum Coastal Skipper (Motor) with commercial endorsement. No other crew are needed . If the Club required additional crew, they could have specified minimum age/qualifications. If that wasn't stipulated then, it seems to me, they should have paid the rate agreed if the service provided was reasonably satisfactory. The contract was made between the Club and the owner/skipper, who sub-contracted the additional crew (who happened to be his children but that's not pertinent to the analysis). However, a contract made for an illegal purpose is unenforceable.

p.s. On the south coast, "category D waters" include
Quote:
Inside the Isle of Wight within an area bounded by lines drawn between the church spire, West Wittering, to Trinity Church, Bembridge to the eastward, and the Needles and Hurst Point to the westward
So a vessel used in the Solent does not "go to sea". However (I believe), a commercial vessel, even if it doesn't "go to sea", remains subject to some other regulation (but not the Code).
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Old 07 October 2009, 07:04   #57
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thats interesting if thats right that all boat need codeing for commercial stuff, run with me on this one for a while, small rib from a good company, has rcd, ce plate etc, most likely been in production for 4/5 years, now, if we go to code it with all the kit they say we have to have that boat will probaly fail the rcd test, for if the boat was a few years old it would have been tested with a two stroke on it at best or maybe a load of bodies in it to simulate the weight, now that four strokes are the norm and are much heavier plus all the kit the freeboard at the transom would be too low if not underwater, so without the rcd, no ce plate the boat is not codeable, i'm trying to make some in roads to the mca to suggest that they don't generalise boats in there code book but to look at ribs with a more specific code of practice, after all i wouldn't mind betting that ribs are there biggest part of the codeing, check out what anchors you have to have on a 8.5 m boat, you could use them on a 7 tonne yaght, it's time the code rules were updated properly
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Old 07 October 2009, 07:46   #58
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Regards boats and engines you have a max weight and hp that shouldn't be exceeded so regardless whether 2 strokes were around or not the max hp and weight still shouldn't be exceeded.
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Old 07 October 2009, 08:08   #59
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ok, chewy, say you had a boat with 75hp two stroke that blows up would you be happy with a replacement 45/50 four stroke, it's about the same weight, you can guess what happens 90 percent of the time
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Old 07 October 2009, 08:24   #60
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ok, chewy, say you had a boat with 75hp two stroke that blows up would you be happy with a replacement 45/50 four stroke, it's about the same weight, you can guess what happens 90 percent of the time
Yes, a certain training school, not far from here has a small fleet of training/safety boats, all of which are fitted with outbords exceeding the manufacturer's stated maximum.
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