Legislation about using distress flares

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

No reply yet. I'll chase it up . . .

John, you could give Mark at the MCA a ring. He has helped Ribnet out a couple of times. Last occurance was something about charter ribs on the IOW when he put the local council back in there box over needing local boatmans licencing and the commercially endorsed RYA ones didn't count.

He has also posted on here over something else but got a bit of a hard time when he put his head over the top.

His work number is 02380 329327

Pete

[Paul Beaurain]

4 men arrested

[PeterM]

This is a joke . Isn't it ?

[m chappelow]

if its a joke its well organised ,eye protection,hand protection ,bucket of water ,extinguishers ,all facing downwind.unless its some new religeous sect.though looking at a lit flare is good for tempory vision loss if you are then looking out for potential rescuers .

[SeaSkills]

Try an Italian football match if you really want some decent red flare action

[codprawn]

Just wait for the G20 summit in London in April - you can chuck them at boats that WILL harress you for pottering along the Thames - i bet a RIB will be seen as fair game!!!

[Paul Beaurain]

Hi There
So that image made some of you look twice.
Well spotted re the safety glasses/gloves etc

I believe the school rang the coastgaurd both before and after the 'test'

good to have tried them.
Paul

[m chappelow]

Originally Posted by Paul Beaurain

Hi There
So that image made some of you look twice.
Well spotted re the safety glasses/gloves etc

I believe the school rang the coastgaurd both before and after the 'test'

good to have tried them.
Paul

though were still trying to work out if the guy in the blue jumper has his neck on fire ,

[DJL]

John, did you manage to find any more info?

[John Kennett]

Thanks for the reminder. I did get a reply from David Lee from the Maritime & Coastguard Agency Enforcement Unit.

Here are some excerpts from his emails:

"As you are aware of the Distress Signals and Prevention of Collisions regs, I won't go further on those other that they apply if the signal is fired from, or near a vessel. ('near would come into debate if other vessels were in the vicinity such as busy Solent, Portsmouth Harbour, harbour or coastal areas etc)"

Looking at the Distress Signals and Prevention of Collisions regs I can't find any reference to "near a vessel". He wasn't able to provide a reference for this, so I suspect it may be the normal bluster. I stand to be corrected though.

"I am not a lawyer, but I can say that there have been successful prosecutions that have been made by police forces when flares have been set off inland. These have been offences under the Firearms Act 1968 as pyrotechnics can fall under the definition under s57. Other offences include, wasting police time, breaches of the peace, public disorder, Explosives Substances Act 1874. Each case would have to be looked at on merit and generally will be vigorously pursued."

I'm sure that this is true to some extent, but would be very unlikely to apply to responsible test firing or demo. More bluster.

From his followup email:

"There is no 'specific' legislation, each case would be looked at on merit. With regard to demos etc these are dealt with on a local basis by HM Coastguard MRCCs and Sector Managers. Approved demonstrations are normally with white or green pyros so as not to attract 999 alerts and reports from aircraft.

If anyone was contemplating a demonstration, my advice would be to contact the local MRCC well in advance."

Probably so they can try to tell you that it's illegal!

The MCGA understandably don't like the idea of people firing off distress flares, but done responsibly there shouldn't be any problem. Personally, I would be inclined to follow the procedure as outlined by Doug Stormforce

Just for the record, this is my understanding of the situation but I'm not a lawyer. If you end up in jail it's your own problem!

[PeterM]

Thanks John - good stuff ( if a lot of bluster as you say ). Based on this whats the chance of a ribnet flare demo someplace & time ?

I can see some open land near a pub named after Winston Churchill , on top of a hill appearing through the mist ( or is that flare smoke? ) ...............

[tedafloat]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Can anyone point me to the legislation that makes firing of distress flares on land an offence?

So far, all I can come up with is the Distress Signals and Prevention of Collisions regulations which apply only to distress signals fired from a vessel.

I've just put this in a separate thread as it got a bit lost in the big distress flare discussion!

I think you could be prosecuted under the firearms act every body has covered just about every marine option and near airfields and military establishments [ same as the use of lasers ] you used to be able too hand old [out of date flares] in to mca or rnli for disposal but thats been stopped

[SeaSkills]

Originally Posted by Blackroady

Based on this whats the chance of a ribnet flare demo someplace & time ?

Just ask the RNLI Sea Safety guys - they'll organise and put on a demo for you, and provide the flares, all the organisation, permissions etc etc, and no charge.

Why risk prosecution (or even simply p*ssing off the Coastguard) when there is a system already in place?

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by tedafloat

I think you could be prosecuted under the firearms act every body has covered just about every marine option and near airfields and military establishments [ same as the use of lasers ]

Why do you think that? Is it based on any specific legislation?

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by SeaSkills

Just ask the RNLI Sea Safety guys - they'll organise and put on a demo for you, and provide the flares, all the organisation, permissions etc etc, and no charge.

Why risk prosecution (or even simply p*ssing off the Coastguard) when there is a system already in place?

Because they won't let you fire the flares, and there's no risk of prosecution because it's not illegal.

If you go about things sensibly, and have the courtesy to let the Coastguard what you are doing, then there's no reason for them to be pissed off either,

[m chappelow]

regards to the lazer types our local police helicopter is supposidly being fitted with a gadet that can track the point of fire owing to some clown aiming one at an inbound passenger jet from a parked car at the end of the runway at our local airport that tempory blinded the pilot .,,but as in anythng if its if it is willfully aimed at some one or some thing to cause harm or damageits against the law but apart from the old very pistol types i am not too sure if normal distress flares rocket or hand helds are classed as fire arms ,its a grey area but i was told that a firearm has to have a projectile fired from a barrel, with the rocket types the plastic outer sleave is only for protection and is not classed as a barrell as in theory its the barrel that shoots out and not the other way around ,is there any one out there that can clear this grey area up regarding the firearms law .i have also being looking into the eventual phase out of the pyrotecnic flares and it seems that its the chemical residues left after burning that seems to be causing concern with authorities ,

[PeterM]

So to drag this up again . My inshore flares expire in Dec - so I have emailed my local RNLI station and had no reply. As a result I intend to drive someway inland and set the things off in a freinds field / farm - well away from anyone or thing.

If I never post again I have burnt to death using these deadly things we all carry.

Pete

[chewy]

Originally Posted by Blackroady

So to drag this up again . My inshore flares expire in Dec - so I have emailed my local RNLI station and had no reply. As a result I intend to drive someway inland and set the things off in a freinds field / farm - well away from anyone or thing.

If I never post again I have burnt to death using these deadly things we all carry.

Pete

What are your local Lifeboat Station meant to do with them? We had a load of out of date ones on station and the bom squad was down for a UXB. Even they wouldn't take them as we had too many.

[SeaSkills]

Originally Posted by Blackroady

So to drag this up again . My inshore flares expire in Dec - so I have emailed my local RNLI station and had no reply. As a result I intend to drive someway inland and set the things off in a freinds field / farm - well away from anyone or thing.

If I never post again I have burnt to death using these deadly things we all carry.

Pete

The RNLI aren't allowed to take them. Try the Coastguard - in most areas they will still take small numbers of flares from leisure (not commercial) users. In some areas around us the police will take them, but that doesn't always work very well

[chewy]

They sink....