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Old 21 April 2006, 11:32   #111
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Originally Posted by MadMat
The quality of the scorpion plugwork is very apparent in the high quality of the hulls produced as a result. Razor sharp lines, beautifully straight edges, nice smooth curves, etc.
The plugwork is EVERYTHING!

When Steve pulled a boat from his moulds, there was no need whatsoever for any post mould work to the finish, they came from the mould with a faultless mirror finish, as i'm sure do the Scorpion products.
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Old 21 April 2006, 11:32   #112
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Originally Posted by Jonny Fuller
Codders, the point you and many others seem to miss, is that unlike any other product, pioneering aeroplanes included, a glassfibre moulding is so damn easy to copy, and we're not talking about taking some measurments, or some influence, we're talking about a DIRECT MECHANICAL COPY!
When someone saw the work the wright brothers did, and decided to have a go themselves, they couldn't buy a '15 year old model', wheel it into their workshop, and with a fivers worth of release wax, and a few swift strokes of a fluffy roller and some matt, have their own Wright brothers aircraft! They had to build the fkkr from scratch, albeit with some of the learning curve removed for them by the Wright brothers hard work and research. (and bravery)

I dare say, if you'd put a couple of years hard graft, and a 100K or so, into a work of art plug & mould, then some low-life after a fast & easy buck got his hands on a second hand one, and took such a mechanical 'exact' copy (tho' of course, Leeways is actually far from exact, as Steve Baker never built a banana shaped hull) claiming the lovely sharp moulding lines, excellent handling, beautiful aesthetic qualities etc, were in fact his work, you'd wanna kill him!...I would.

Do try and see from a point of view other than that of a 'punter' who gets a cheaper boat!

Surely you're not really that shallow.

JF
I agree, I am left in little doubt about the origin of of Leeway's rib after having read this and previous threads. It certainly appears that he splashed a Phantom 18, and didn't make a particularly good job of it. He may have corrected the original mistake (or rough water design feature) and he may not; I would pay my money and take my choice elsewhere.
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Old 21 April 2006, 11:33   #113
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MadMat and Jono,

I have never been known as someone to withhold views or be backward in coming forward. I believe this is a sensitive subject and i can not confess to knowing the hull in question so can not form an opinion i would share openly, and would not based on the thread posts on this thread, i would have to see and inspect myself etc. However personally i do have a view on all this.

I will speak for myself here.......I personally would prefer to buy a boat where i know the history of the boat or mould etc and normally i like to see the build process and form my own views on the suitability of it for my personal use. For the last two boats i have purchased i have done just that and gone along to see them in the build process of my actual boat and identify the tweaks from the norm that i desire. I tend not to believe everything i hear and tend to question most things, no matter what source and i always form my own opinions and views.

would i personally buy a splashed boat if i knew this to be the case, probably not as to me it might be a safety issue whether the boat was fit for purpose. I would prefer to buy from a known good laminator with a proven track record and history, but thats me.... and that is what i have done....

Have i purchased goods that are copies of the original in the past.......yes, but you pays your money and takes your choice, an example of a purchase is a copy of a rubiks cube thingy...from the market.....oops showing my age there
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Old 21 April 2006, 11:34   #114
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No Mr fuller I am not - I know EXACTLY what you mean - but can't you see that it is also unfair to copy any other design either. The world is full of such examples - for example Hoover gets all the credit for the vacuum cleaner and Singer for the sewing machine and yet they ripped off other people's work. How many people keep on about that?

Unfair - yes
Wrong - yes
A fact of life - unfortunately also yes.

Often the inventor isn't the one who is remembered - it's the most successful business man!!!

I remember reading a story about a firm who hires out Ferraris and other supercars - they say they have often had cars back with damaged paintwork and traces of fibreglass left after people have used them to take moulds off.

If you are going to stoop low enough to copy someone elses design is it REALLY much worse to make life easier for yourself?
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Old 21 April 2006, 11:48   #115
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Originally Posted by codprawn
No Mr fuller I am not - I know EXACTLY what you mean - but can't you see that it is also unfair to copy any other design either. The world is full of such examples - for example Hoover gets all the credit for the vacuum cleaner and Singer for the sewing machine and yet they ripped off other people's work. How many people keep on about that?

Unfair - yes
Wrong - yes
A fact of life - unfortunately also yes.

Often the inventor isn't the one who is remembered - it's the most successful business man!!!

I remember reading a story about a firm who hires out Ferraris and other supercars - they say they have often had cars back with damaged paintwork and traces of fibreglass left after people have used them to take moulds off.

If you are going to stoop low enough to copy someone elses design is it REALLY much worse to make life easier for yourself?
We'll just have to agree to disagree, and I hope dearly that you never wind up in the situation Steve Baker, Mike Sloggit/Don Shead/Lorne Campbell, and a few other found themselves in. I believe that if you were singularly responsible for the design, development, plugwork, tool production, and marketing of a product, including all the heartache, time and massive finacial requirments, it would be all the more annoying, I would be in tears if it were me.

Another dead funny part to this, is that when a south coast based company recently started producing a dreadfull quality copy of Mike Rings ski boats (and I do mean fkkn dreadfull) Leeway had the unbelievable cheek to contact Mike to tell him! I fkkn ask you! what on earth is going on in that boys head? Talk about hypocritical.
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Old 21 April 2006, 11:58   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Fuller
We'll just have to agree to disagree, and I hope dearly that you never wind up in the situation Steve Baker, Mike Sloggit/Don Shead/Lorne Campbell, and a few other found themselves in. I believe that if you were singularly responsible for the design, development, plugwork, tool production, and marketing of a product, including all the heartache, time and massive finacial requirments, it would be all the more annoying, I would be in tears if it were me.

Another dead funny part to this, is that when a south coast based company recently started producing a dreadfull quality copy of Mike Rings ski boats (and I do mean fkkn dreadfull) Leeway had the unbelievable cheek to contact Mike to tell him! I fkkn ask you! what on earth is going on in that boys head? Talk about hypocritical.

I actually HAVE been in that very situation which is maybe why I am now more resigned to things than I used to be. Also that is why I say that a patent is pretty useless unless you have the money behind you to fight it!!!
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Old 21 April 2006, 12:00   #117
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Originally Posted by codprawn
also unfair to copy any other design either. The world is full of such examples - for example Hoover gets all the credit for the vacuum cleaner and Singer for the sewing machine and yet they ripped off other people's work. How many people keep on about that?
oh come on codders, a vacuum cleaner? a sewing machine? we are talking about boats! Agreed the principal is similar but we could go on forever detailing items and products that are similar??
The fact is that to reproduce certain products ie, aircraft, cars, sewing machines etc etc we are talking about a totally different level of skill and ability, whereas to take someone elses hull and mould it and call it your own is "in your face" theft! and to further that, to make it publically known that you claim to have designed from scratch, with great skill, your own hull and then put into production, i find that a pisstake! if your gonna do it at least have the decency to be upfront about it and stand by your convictions Mr Leeway!
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Old 21 April 2006, 12:00   #118
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so cods


what did you patent?
Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
I actually HAVE been in that very situation which is maybe why I am now more resigned to things than I used to be. Also that is why I say that a patent is pretty useless unless you have the money behind you to fight it!!!
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Old 21 April 2006, 12:03   #119
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I actually HAVE been in that very situation which is maybe why I am now more resigned to things than I used to be. Also that is why I say that a patent is pretty useless unless you have the money behind you to fight it!!!
If people weren't so greedy, there's be little need to fight anything, the splashers wouldn't get any customers! especially with the new fangled tinterweb. There's no real need for anyone to be uninformed.

Ho Hum
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Old 21 April 2006, 12:05   #120
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so cods


what did you patent?
I woz gonna ask that
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