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Old 07 February 2007, 19:56   #1
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Is a Redbay really necessary on Loch Lomond?

I have just received my newsletter from the Loch Lommond and Trossachs National Park Authority. Apparently they are replacing their Targa25 "rangers patrol boat" with a Redbay.

Now don't get me wrong - the loch can get choppy. And in the rain / snow / wind a cabin must be desirable for them. But I don't think it quite needs the seakeeping of a redbay (or probably the orginal targa!). They do also have a reasonably large rib (delta?) which is used for speed limit enforcement etc too.

Perhaps I am just jealous!
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Old 07 February 2007, 20:27   #2
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No I don't think so.

It amazes me that any public body or industry can always afford the best. Maybe they need to pay a bit more tax to bring them down to our level.

All these public services say they don't have enough money but they seem to have nice offices, new vehicles, expensive boats, the latest communications etc. And yet us a private individual often wonders how we are going to fill the next tank of petrol to get to work.

I even went in to a school in Portsmouth last year that had 4 42" (Yes 4) Plasma TV's in the reception, who watches them, the head !!! And last year 42" plasma TV's cost a small fortune. And those of you with kids at school in the UK know that schools are always asking for money for trips and books etc.
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Old 08 February 2007, 02:09   #3
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I even went in to a school in Portsmouth last year that had 4 42" (Yes 4) Plasma TV's in the reception, who watches them, the head !!! And last year 42" plasma TV's cost a small fortune. And those of you with kids at school in the UK know that schools are always asking for money for trips and books etc.
We have 32's dotted throughout the building... there's one in our office and we don't even want it, it's permanently off!
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Old 08 February 2007, 04:35   #4
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We have 32's dotted throughout the building... there's one in our office and we don't even want it, it's permanently off!
Can I have it?
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Old 08 February 2007, 05:18   #5
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Can't put a price on safety. The one occcasion it's really needed will put the cost into perpective. It must be one of the best boats to 'safely' overload in an emergency.
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Old 08 February 2007, 05:26   #6
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Is a Redbay really necessary on Loch Lomond?

Aye
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Old 08 February 2007, 05:50   #7
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[quote=Mouldy;185696] Can't put a price on safety. [quote]
At the end of the day you have to. Loch users don't pay for the facilities directly at the moment - the tax payer does. However there are a number of things the ranger service could do for less money (and the rangers agree would be useful) including installing VHF antanae, so you are not reliant on poor mobile phone reception in an emergency.

None of the bouys are lit - but they are considering it for safety "when suitable funds can be identified".

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The one occcasion it's really needed will put the cost into perpective.
They are not the primary rescue response on the loch. There is a rescue boat funded by voluntary donations who have just received a new boat. Undoubtedly the existing boat does do some work of this nature, and will get involved in searches etc too - but this is not its main task. But in addition to the Luss rescue boat the rangers also have a rib (mostly used for catching people speeding).


I don't mind really - its just the more I see a redbay the more I want one...
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Old 08 February 2007, 07:32   #8
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No I don't think so.

It amazes me that any public body or industry can always afford the best. Maybe they need to pay a bit more tax to bring them down to our level.

All these public services say they don't have enough money but they seem to have nice offices, new vehicles, expensive boats, the latest communications etc. And yet us a private individual often wonders how we are going to fill the next tank of petrol to get to work.
Tell me about it - Police patrol cars around here are £45,000 Merc estates - they have a new Range Rover and a Discovery 3. They even have a Mitsubishi Evo VIII - I mean!!! And of course that's not forgetting the greatest white elephants of them all - the Police helicopters. They cost about £5,000 every hour in the air and they use them to catch joyriders who have stolen an old Astra - meanwhile the air ambulance struggles for funding!!!
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Old 08 February 2007, 07:33   #9
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I've seen most of what the weather can offer on loch lomond, it can get pretty rough, plenty rough enough to justify a large rib, they prob picked RB because heated cabin for long stretches out wandering about.

Craig C's 8.4 is an amazing boat, could have been designed for this application me thinks.
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Old 08 February 2007, 13:46   #10
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And of course that's not forgetting the greatest white elephants of them all - the Police helicopters. They cost about £5,000 every hour in the air and they use them to catch joyriders who have stolen an old Astra - meanwhile the air ambulance struggles for funding!!!
Bollocks.

I've worked many times with WO99 (South Wales helo) which has done more than it's fair share of search and rescue work, jumpers from Severn Bridges and Newport Bridge, response to cars off road in remote places, swiftwater flood rescue...the list goes on. Yes, part of their time is taken up chasing stolen vehicles, but (a) it's good pilot and observer training for "proper" missing persons searches, and (b) why should car thieves nick things with impunity?

And I agree about the air ambulance, but maybe the health minister should explain that one - robbing one service to help another is hardly the answer.

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Old 08 February 2007, 14:14   #11
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Car theft figures are way down - of course the Police and local councils etc are claiming the credit but it's down to modern cars with better alarms/immobilisers etc.

There is a place in Swansea known for joyriders dumping cars - the sort of things you see there are the much older cars - I even saw a Volvo 240 estate burnt out not long ago - talk about scraping the barrel - when did you last see one of those on the road???

As to search and rescue etc it all comes down to economics - I think that the £3,000,000 a year these things cost to run could save far more lives if spent elsewhere - get more bobbies on the beat etc etc.

Now the Police helicopter is being used to stop EVIL 4x4 drivers enjoying themselves and terrorising the countryside!!!
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Old 08 February 2007, 16:08   #12
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Now the Police helicopter is being used to stop EVIL 4x4 drivers enjoying themselves and terrorising the countryside!!!
Probably because they are easier to catch than real criminals who answer back.
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Old 09 February 2007, 09:40   #13
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cost of redbay

perhaps the 5 yr cost worked out cheaper after the heavier depreciation of a lesser craft? Any one seen 2nd hand redbay prices?

I appreciate now that there's a dedicated rescue boat - but like Polwart I agree a Redbay would be a pleasant working environment!
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Old 10 February 2007, 08:14   #14
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Ever been to sea in a Targa.....I woudn't. They roll like an absolute pig. The police have one here for the River Shannon and bring it round the coast for "Occassions". The Crews hate its sea keeping abilities. Also remember a cabin Redbay would cost a third of a Targa to buy and run .
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Old 11 February 2007, 05:19   #15
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Craig C's 8.4 is an amazing boat, could have been designed for this application me thinks.
thanks ian, i also agree. to have a redbay 11m on loch lomond is ridiculous. i would like to meet the man who decided that an 11m would be needed for a 25mile stretch of water. an 8.4 exped would offer all cabin features but in a smaller package. one of my mates has a house and a boat on loch lomond and laughs about how they cant park a searider next to his pier.....how they going to get on with 11m and a deep vee
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Old 11 February 2007, 14:58   #16
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Ever been to sea in a Targa.....I woudn't. They roll like an absolute pig. The police have one here for the River Shannon and bring it round the coast for "Occassions". The Crews hate its sea keeping abilities.
I haven't been on a Targa (except at a boat show) - I thought they had a pretty good sea keeping reputation though?

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Also remember a cabin Redbay would cost a third of a Targa to buy
I could be completely wrong but off the top of my head I though a Targa 25 cost in the 80-90k ball park (with engines etc). Looking at the cost of second hand redbays there is noway a new one can be 1/3 of that - I would guess they are similar priced.

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and run .
Fuel will be the major running cost element. I don't know the spec of the boat they are buying, nor even if it will be diesel. If it is petrol then I think as it is inland water they can not reclaim the duty. If it is diesel I would be surprised if the fuel consumption would be significantly different between the two boats if they had similar engine set ups.
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Old 11 February 2007, 15:00   #17
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thanks ian, i also agree. to have a redbay 11m on loch lomond is ridiculous. i would like to meet the man who decided that an 11m would be needed for a 25mile stretch of water. an 8.4 exped would offer all cabin features but in a smaller package. one of my mates has a house and a boat on loch lomond and laughs about how they cant park a searider next to his pier.....how they going to get on with 11m and a deep vee
craig - do you know its an 11 m they are getting ? there is no detail in the newsletter. I would be surprised if it is significantly bigger than the 25 ft targa (rought 8-9m ish) as the jetty space they use is about that size.
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Old 11 February 2007, 16:06   #18
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yes....its an 11m with all the toys
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Old 11 February 2007, 16:09   #19
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At least it should handle the famous Loch Lomond Tsunami. Nothing like being prepared.
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Old 11 February 2007, 18:08   #20
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I suppose it's like driving a 4x4....it just does some things better and those benefits are worth having.
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