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Old 27 October 2002, 14:52   #11
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Hi All,
Just thought I would let you know how the course went.

It was five days long and we were all teaching each other, this had the benefit of getting a great deal from the others on the course. The breakdown was:
Day 1: Classroom and boat prep. This was a long day but meant that we got a lot of the classroom stuff out of the way.
Day2: Out in the Solent in a F9 gusting F10. Got as far as the Hamble for our lessons. It was most interesting teaching bumps and grinds in that weather !!! This day was based on a Level 1 course, lessons in the eve.
Day 3: Weather better! Based on a level 2 course, again on the water with more lessons in the eve
Day 4: Based on safety boat course today. Had all the bits of kit on the water, i.e. Cat, dinghy etc. More eve lessons.
Day 5: Tidy up.

In all a very good course with a lot to cram in.

A couple of thoughts from the course:

Why can someone do a level 2 course and then go and become an Instr at that level?

Why is there not a Senior Instr post within the powerboat scheme?

I am a firm believer that to Instr you should be of a level above the one you are teaching. It seems to me that the powerboat scheme could do with a bit of a shack up. I do not mean make it more difficult but perhaps make it a bit more structured.

Many thanks to those that took the time to reply to my first e-mail.

Regards
Stuart
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Old 27 October 2002, 16:24   #12
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powerboat scheme is under review as part of rya ongoing programme. I share you concerns over newly qualified level 2 taking instructor course and i have refused to take people onto instructor courses cos i know they have not the background or experience but then find they have gone somewhere else not so particular. One particular girlie (well midddle age lady) springs to mind. A dangerous nightmare on the water-I refused to give her a coastal endorsement to a level2 after she had done the course, then found a friend had refused her a rescue boat ticket on one of his courses. Phoned me a couple of years ago and asked if she could work for us as she had now got her instructor's ticket I politely declined! Requirements for five years logged experience are not really enforceable, they do not have to be after the level 2 and anyone can write down imaginary trips in a book. Having said that I have people come for level 2 who have loads of experience and would make good instructors straight away. Guy last week was approaching early retirement from the merchant navy, he had gone out in small boats since he was a baby with his dad who had been a lifeboat cox'n for 28 years. No reason why he should not go straight onto instructing if he so wished.
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Old 27 October 2002, 16:49   #13
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Dave,
I agree. Anyone can use a sharp pencil in there logbook and be the best thing since sliced bread. One of the things I have noticed throughout the years in various RYA disciplines is the question: what ticket have you got followed by where from?

This will always be the case and I think that you can very quickly see if anybody has done what they say they have. With your guy who had done 28 years in the merchant Navy, I agree he would make an excellent Instr and that I feel that is the beauty of the RYA scheme in that anyone can do a direct assessment at any level.
However, to become a principal of a RYA school what qualification must you have in the powerboat scheme? To become a principal in the other disciplines you must be at least a SI or equivalent. I.e. above the normal Instr level. This I feel should be the case in the powerboat scheme.
Regards
Stuart
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Old 27 October 2002, 18:46   #14
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No its scary- powerboat level 2, pass an instructor course and then they can be principal - and his learning process grinds almost to a halt and all those mistaken ideas that he is sure are right are continued on and on cos he never works under or with other instructors. Nobody does it the same as any one else and working a number years with a variety of instructors with different teaching techniques is the way to produce a top class instructor as he picks up all the good bits and discards the rest. Perhap then he should be an SI
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Old 27 October 2002, 18:56   #15
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Hi folks ,

I find that this whole subject has come up for discussion quite timely and find myself in strong agreement with many of the comments expressed by Wavelength !

I am the National Powerboat Trainer in Ireland with the Irish Sailing Association. I am also Principal of Lough Ree Power Boat School which I feel quite safe in saying is the leading Motor Boat and Powerboat training School in Ireland. In my "real life" I am in charge of the Army Boat Squad over here.

We ( The Irish sailing Association - ISA ) are currently reviewing the National Powerboat Scheme here in Ireland.

By coincidence I have just arrived home tonight after running a 4 day PB Instuctor course.

As Principal of Lough Ree Power Boat School , I personally interview all instructor course candidates . As a rough guide we would expect candidates from a professional background ( Army, Police or RNLI etc..) to have as a minimum, in excess of two or three years of active service before joining a PBI course and we would expect a leisure user to have in excess of 5 years of experience. Many of our candidates fall some where in between.; and of course there are always exceptions to every rule.

I would count relevant boating experience ahead of years of holding a Level 2. MY own Chief Instructor , Phil Knowd puts it nicely when he advises L2 candidates about apres course filling of Log Books being important when convincing Stuart to accept you onto an Instructor course..........

"After an interview we will know whether you have enough experience or not no matter what is written in your Log Book !"

We are also very wary of Instructors who have trained in the couple of well known " Pay your money - Get your Instructor Qualification " Schools in the UK. Good people have come through these Schools ... but we definitely take a third look when we hear certain UK School names mentioned on an Instructors CV.


I agree about having a "Grade " or status of Senior Powerboat Instructor . This would be some one who is both a Safety Boat and Advanced Instructor. We are currently looking at this within the ISA. This would also streamline Instructor-Trainer candidates.

I made the point on the PBI course today that the School Principal as opposed to the Chief Instructor need not be an Instructor. Principal of an RTE is a titular ( and legally responsible ) position which can be occupied by a business person who owns the company or a club commodore. Often , as in my case, the Principal is both an Instructor and a business person / club commodore. I see nothing wrong with this . The chairman of an engineering firm is not necessarily a qualified engineer!

Best wishes ,

Stuart McNamara
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Old 28 October 2002, 14:12   #16
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One other little gem is that you only have to 16yrs old to do your PB Intr's course!!!!

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Stuart
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Old 28 October 2002, 14:48   #17
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Here in Ireland, that would be an impossibility.

No one under the age of 16 is allowed by law to be in charge of or control of ( even under supervision) a craft which is capable of a speed of 17 knots or over.

Therefore the earliest that one could do ones L2 is 16 and therefore the youngest PBI candidate we would ever see ( as an extreme case) would be a 19 year old Professional user ( Army Police etc.) and even that would be extremely unlikely.

In general , the youngest candidates for a PBI course that we would ever see here in Ireland would be 25 +.

Best wishes ,

Stuart
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Old 28 October 2002, 15:07   #18
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Originally posted by Powerboat
Here in Ireland, that would be an impossibility.

No one under the age of 16 is allowed by law to be in charge of or control of ( even under supervision) a craft which is capable of a speed of 17 knots or over.

Stuart
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Stuart, Does that mean that literally you can't drive a RIB in Eire unless you are over 16?? So if you are a kid, you can't drive Dads RIB, even supervised? Or to put it another way if you are a parent you cant teach your kids to drive a RIB safely until they are 16? What utter madness. How many RESPONSIBLE teenagers are there in the ribbing fraternity? Loads I'd say. (HMS's son driving a RIB round Britain for one. )

I learnt much of my early high speed (ish) type boating at the age of 14-16 in Dell Quay Dory's at the local sailing club. I shudder to think that I wouldn't be able to do the same for my kids (when I have 'em )

Hope this isn't something that comes to UK eventually!

Yours shocked, Alan
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Old 28 October 2002, 15:16   #19
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Quote:
Hope this isn't something that comes to UK eventually!
Hmmmmmmmmm......

Remember a thread about COMPULSORY training?

Keith (watch out there's a law about) Hart
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Old 28 October 2002, 15:31   #20
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Hi Alan ,

I'm afraid you are right and I totally agree that it is crazy !

Blame our good old forward thinking Dept of the Marine !


These rules were introduced last year. Some of the rules were quite sensible . Life jackets must now be worn at all times by under 16s on fast craft and must be carried for all over 16 year olds.

Under 16s are not allowed to operate ( even under supervision) a fast water craft.

Heretofore , our policy in the ISA was that we would train under 16s with their parents permission to Level 2 standard. Their L2 cert would be endorsed until they were 16 . ( ie it was not a Certificate of Competency) This was a very sensible arrangement which led to kids getting good training while still maintaing a voluntary and well supported control system.


When the new legislation was being proposed , we in the ISA looked for a derogation for Schools on the basis that kids are out there driving anyway and at least if they could be trained to L2 standard that they would be safer. Our submissions to the DOM were very detailed , reasoned and were of course largely ignored !

The Departments response was that there was no need to train under 16s as they were not allowed by the new law to drive and therfore would not need training!

Of course there are practically no resources in place to enforce the new laws . So now we have a very dangerous situation over here where Kids are driving fast craft Who is going to stop them !) and responsible schools such as ours are forbidden by law from providing them with training.

It is now likely that there will be a mandatory driving licence for fast craft here in Ireland from next year.

I could go on and on and on about how little the DOM know over here about fast craft operations !


AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHH !!!!!!

Yours in frustration !

Stuart
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