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Old 29 August 2019, 03:14   #31
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I hadnít realised the price difference was so low. I buy red off the local farmer for 60p/litre. Iíd assumed the diesel boys would be paying similar.
Hi PD,
Please let md have number for your local farmer, we use 000's of litres of red derv in our shunters and reefers every week and are paying well above 60ppl for bulk tanker delivieries!
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Old 29 August 2019, 03:21   #32
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supply and demand though - currently zero demand. How long will it take to adjust is the issue? perhaps pete's business opportunity is not crazy...
Yes where there is yachties headed, and particularly yachties who can choose between two marinas - if one starts offering white and the other nothing... the one with fuel will become preferred. You'll sell £20 of diesel which is nothing to excite the accountants. But you'll also sell an overnight berth, electricity, showers, if you own a restaurant the WAFI family of 4 likely want somewhere to eat. By making your marina more attractive then the alternative you may well be getting a visitor in who is spending > £100.

And if you are a WAFI or Mobo owner looking for a 365 days a year marina to park up in, in exchange for £2-4k... would you pick the one with fuel or the one without?

Diesel is a lot easier / safer to have in tanks above ground etc. Mobile tanks are possible. SO I doubt it will help the majority of rib owners!

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so if I understand it, the reality of this is - a large percentage of intelligence led sampling, along with random stops in "hot spots", some random testing when other stuff is getting checked (I can't see a marine equivalent) and a tiny amount of truly random stops for truly random people.
The marine equivalent is Border Force boarding your boat. Almost unheard of in Sturgeon Country - but does happen on the South Coast. You'll never know how much of that is 'intelligence' / profiling but there are plenty of WAFIs who are pretty certain they did nothing wrong / to attract attention.

There will be a Border Force Patrol boat somewhere other than the channel or people would just completely avoid the channel... ...but if stopped - its probably like being stopped by the police. Be polite, helpful, and chances are they wont do more than have a cursory glance over the car. Certainly when stopped last year for an Christmas Breath Test in the car they did me in less than a minute. The white van in front was there well before I was stopped, was still there when I left, having its tank dipped, tread depth measured etc. That may have been because the vehicle fitted a profile for more attention, or the driver might have given them jip, or maybe he blew over.

If you start running day trips from Dover to Calias to Dover in your Diesel RIB for friends you picked up on the internet 2 days before hand on a "costs sharing basis"... ...expect your tanks to be dipped.
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Old 29 August 2019, 03:47   #33
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... Certainly when stopped last year for an Christmas Breath Test in the car they did me in less than a minute. The white van in front was there well before I was stopped, was still there when I left, having its tank dipped, tread depth measured etc. That may have been because the vehicle fitted a profile for more attention, or the driver might have given them jip, or maybe he blew over.
Perhaps he pointed out he wasn't required to give a specimen of breath unless he had been involved in an accident, committed a traffic offence, or had given the officers reason to suspect he was intoxicated.
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Old 29 August 2019, 04:53   #34
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I hadnít realised the price difference was so low. I buy red off the local farmer for 60p/litre. Iíd assumed the diesel boys would be paying similar.
I just bought 1200ltrs for 57p/ ltr yesterday
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Old 29 August 2019, 05:17   #35
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I just bought 1200ltrs for 57p/ ltr yesterday


Thatís more like what I expected.
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Old 29 August 2019, 05:27   #36
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I just bought 1200ltrs for 57p/ ltr yesterday
Was that full price or commercial price?
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Old 29 August 2019, 05:35   #37
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Perhaps he pointed out he wasn't required to give a specimen of breath unless he had been involved in an accident, committed a traffic offence, or had given the officers reason to suspect he was intoxicated.
Perhaps.

In my world... That refusal... Just counted as reason to suspect

The same would apply if border force ask to board and are asked for their legal basis for doing so... If you have done nowt wrong... Be nice and it ends nicely.

Perhaps experience tells them a white unlabelled transit van it more likely to have defects and dodgy fuel than a 3year 3month old car...
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Old 29 August 2019, 06:00   #38
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Was that full price or commercial price?
Thats the proper price for agricultural/marine fuel the full price of red for marine leisure craft is the same as road fuel & likely more given the marinas mark up.
To be honest anyone currently running a boat on full priced red wants their head examined no one knows or cares where the fuel comes from so whats the point in paying the duty on it?
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Old 29 August 2019, 07:33   #39
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Thats the proper price for agricultural/marine fuel the full price of red for marine leisure craft is the same as road fuel & likely more given the marinas mark up.
No it's not. Pleasure craft are allowed to state the percentage taxed at the full rate for propulsion and the percentage taxed at the heating oil rate (5%). Hence 60/40% split is popular as HMRC stated they wouldn't check records for anyone claiming 60/40. Those claiming other more lucrative rates or even 100% heating rate may be asked to prove it.

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To be honest anyone currently running a boat on full priced red wants their head examined no one knows or cares where the fuel comes from so whats the point in paying the duty on it?
Well, when I had a diesel rib it came down to time / availability /cost / convenience.

Lugging 20L cans to the local red supplier in the car, then down to the boat just to go out for a few hours soon looses its attraction and a spill makes you stink. Alternatively nip round to the local marina and use the automated 24hr pump.

With the yacht we use about 90L a year so not really worth worrying about and saves messing with cans and spills. Keeping the receipt meant trips to France weren't a problem as it could be shown to be 60/40 split between propulsion and heating, therefore tax paid and legal, until the recent EU court ruling.

If white was available as Poly suggests through demand then EU boats may increasingly make the crossing.

This whole red thing has been under threat for nearly 20 years. HMRC have done a marvelous of stalling, fudging and pontificating to the EU for the benefit of boaters. Guess the time is up unless you want to risk being stopped with red, heating oil or even worse home brew chippie oil . Also a bit difficult to justify when the district nurse has to pay full wack on a forecourt to do her rounds whist big go faster gin palace is allowed a tax break to charge across the Solent to Yarmouth for lunch.
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Old 29 August 2019, 11:57   #40
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Also a bit difficult to justify when the district nurse has to pay full wack on a forecourt to do her rounds whist big go faster gin palace is allowed a tax break to charge across the Solent to Yarmouth for lunch.
No red in the tank but plenty under the beds it appears...

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