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Old 14 September 2007, 17:09   #21
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Old 15 September 2007, 03:16   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn View Post
I heard there was a good reason DSD weren't paid.......

You seem to do plenty of praising the soft ride that your splash delivers.

Lorne Campbell was asked to look into the tendency to chine walk at speed, he added some reverse chine.

Are you seriously suggesting that Shead deserved no payment at all because of this? As I see it, if the design was so poor that it deserved no payment at all, Sloggit shouldn't have used any of the design at all, and paid Lorne to do a completely fresh one from the ground up and paid for that.

Sloggit has done very well over the years (he's been selling products based on that design sinse 1983) from that original 25 in it's various guise's, as have all the thieves and I'm pretty sure all the early stuff was advertised as a shead design, ....happy to indulge himself in the good name of DS, but too tight, or dishonest to pay for the priviledge eh!, , .......the marine trade eh! and then we have some nob from wales talk like he not only knows something, but thinks it's his job to spout this shite on the internet.

I wonder why there are so many British designers now..... go figure codders, and ponder the answer the next time you're enjoying your 'soft riding' cheap splash.
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Old 15 September 2007, 09:44   #23
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I really don't think my tiny comment deserved that sort of personal attack - stop being so cantankerous!!!

I just said that I had heard there was a good reason - I didn't say I knew what it was. You seem to have deduced a lot from a very short comment!!!

Don Shead is world famous and rightly so.

If it was so clear cut why wasn't the other bloke sued? I would have though Don Shead would have had the clout and the repuation to do it quite easily???
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Old 15 September 2007, 10:05   #24
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Originally Posted by codprawn View Post
I just said that I had heard there was a good reason -
Where did you hear that?
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Old 15 September 2007, 10:17   #25
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I honestly can't remember - it was many moons ago - long before i even thought of buying a RIB.

All I remember hearing was that Don Shead had designed the original Revenger hull but there were problems and he never got paid - simple as. I didn't know about the Lorne Campbell part until you mentioned it. No wonder it's such a great hull if they were both involved!!!

After I ordered my RIB I discovered it was basically a Revenger splash - now I find out even if I had a genuine Revenger it would still be a splash!!!
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Old 15 September 2007, 10:26   #26
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As to the lack of boat designers could it be that there isn't much left to do to a normal monohull - lets face it they haven't changed much in how long? Steps were invented back in the 1930s or even earlier.

Despite what people think there isn't much truly new out there - and I am quite sure there's probably some old boy from the 1930s moaning about HIS designs being splashed!!!

If people didn't copy other people's designs all the time then a Princess would look nothing like a Fairline or an Azimut or a Sunseeker etc - there's hardly anything different about them these days. It used to be flybridges - now it's hardtops - and yes they doo all look pretty much the same!!!
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Old 16 September 2007, 03:41   #27
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I asked Mike Sloggett yesterday about Revengers beginnings,he asked DSD to design him a hull in approx 1978/9 & he PAID for the design,why would DSD hand over drawings for a design that had not been paid for ? & even if he did, then why did DSD not take action against Sloggett ? Sloggett could not have known that the design he would use two years later would be flawed,the original boat did not turn very well & so he asked DSD for help & if he would be prepared to change the original design,no help was given.The original mould was then cut up.As was the second mould because Tony Needel deemed it to be far to flimsy.Lorne Campbell was asked to redesign the hull,i am told that the reverse chine was added & that the chine was widened,also the beam at the stern was also increased.I also asked Phil Morris if he thought that Mike could be lying,his opinion is that if Sloggett said that he paid for it then he did,& I believe him.
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Old 16 September 2007, 04:28   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn View Post
As to the lack of boat designers could it be that there isn't much left to do to a normal monohull - lets face it they haven't changed much in how long? Steps were invented back in the 1930s or even earlier.

Despite what people think there isn't much truly new out there - and I am quite sure there's probably some old boy from the 1930s moaning about HIS designs being splashed!!!

If people didn't copy other people's designs all the time then a Princess would look nothing like a Fairline or an Azimut or a Sunseeker etc - there's hardly anything different about them these days. It used to be flybridges - now it's hardtops - and yes they doo all look pretty much the same!!!

Just because most boats are pointed at one end, and quite blunt at the other, doesn't mean they're all the same.

Agreed, little in terms of design 'ideas' are new, if any. However, the need for a designer is still there as strong as ever. Even given the little there is in differing concepts these days, there's still a good dribble of genuinly new models out there, and a popular current racing class is as good a example as you could get that not all 'been done before' design concepts work!

Whether the criteria is for speed, stability, or foul weather ability, a bloke who truely understands hull design is needed to bring all the known factors together into a package that works. there are loads of 'average performing' boats out there, but most that excel in their intended bracket, were'nt designed by 'have a go' designer/builder, they came from a drawing board belonging to a real designer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon McMath View Post
I asked Mike Sloggett yesterday about Revengers beginnings,he asked DSD to design him a hull in approx 1978/9 & he PAID for the design,why would DSD hand over drawings for a design that had not been paid for ? & even if he did, then why did DSD not take action against Sloggett ? Sloggett could not have known that the design he would use two years later would be flawed,the original boat did not turn very well & so he asked DSD for help & if he would be prepared to change the original design,no help was given.The original mould was then cut up.As was the second mould because Tony Needel deemed it to be far to flimsy.Lorne Campbell was asked to redesign the hull,i am told that the reverse chine was added & that the chine was widened,also the beam at the stern was also increased.I also asked Phil Morris if he thought that Mike could be lying,his opinion is that if Sloggett said that he paid for it then he did,& I believe him.
I will talk to my source later, but I have to say, he's rather well connected and I can't imagine this is fiction.

Maybe there was an initial design payment, followed by royalties payments, and it was the royalties that were not paid (or re-negotiated)

Lorne clearly did work on the design, but it's still unmistakebly a Shead. I even seem to remember the original advertising using the DSD logo.

As I said, I'll try to find out later about the details.
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Old 17 September 2007, 11:08   #29
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[
Quote:
QUOTE=Jonny Fuller;218787] 29 inches!! I think not!...you appear to have missed the joke.

You missed every joke on boatmad


Quote:
The all new Phantom will be closer to 33', and unlike mr revenger, the copyright is legit on my phantom (bet you didn't know Sloggit never paid Shead for the design did you? Sloggits name was dirt at DSD)
[/QUOTE]

But you go on about splashes all the time so i doubt it. If you hate splashes so much delete all the photos of them on boatmad. Oh your gallery might not look so good
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Old 18 September 2007, 17:45   #30
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performance

any news on performance?
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