Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 27 September 2007, 13:37   #41
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: scotland
Boat name: Leviathan
Make: Phantom
Length: 8m +
Engine: GM Diesels
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kennett View Post
Or do you not like people having opinions that you don't agree with?



John
That's the policy I adopt with Boatmad.
__________________
Jonny Fuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 September 2007, 15:06   #42
Member
 
Country: Other
Town: Christiansted.V.I.
Boat name: Froggy
Make: Avon SeaRider
Length: 4m +
Engine: Johnson 50
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by genoa View Post
No wonder the country is in a mess!!
Hey, don't blame it on me! I can only fork up one country at a time and I haven't gotten around to yours yet
__________________
Tomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 September 2007, 20:58   #43
Member
 
Bigmuz7's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Glasgow
Boat name: stramash
Make: Tornado
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 90
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,090
I'm getting bored with how many posts keep getting deleted
__________________
Bigmuz7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 September 2007, 21:28   #44
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Mighty Penryn
Boat name: Little Joe.
Make: Avon Searider
Length: 4m +
Engine: Honda BF50
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Fuller View Post
Just for the record, I reckon the sharp end is the most dangerous place to be in any fast boat travelling over a bumpy surface. This is why I hate Bowriders so much, you wouldn't get me in one one of those for love, nor money (OK, maybe an hour with Mariah Carey would be worth the risk)

The witch hunt thing is a little scarey.

My point was really that too many people on here are pre-occupied with what other people are up to, and feel it's their job to expose them, whilst at the same time prove how safety concious they are (read, 'good upright sensible citizens') A bit of an obsession I can't quite grasp. They're probably all real busy body neighbours too!

PS. from the above statement, it sounds like you think WOT would have been the right speed tpo approach the wake with the child in the bow!
.

Blimey. I have to agree with most of the above. I wont have my kids or anyone else travelling forward of midships. I've witnessed bikini clad g/f's getting all but slung out of bowriders.
The kid should've been wearing a lifejacket.
__________________
Mollers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 September 2007, 21:37   #45
Administrator
 
John Kennett's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Brighton
Length: 3m +
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 7,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmuz7 View Post
I'm getting bored with how many posts keep getting deleted
They're no great loss. I'll delete any more similar ones too if necessary!

John
__________________
John Kennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 September 2007, 21:51   #46
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Boat name: Ribell
Length: no boat
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 195
If you are out on a boat then put a PFD or lifejacket on. I don't see the problem.

Young children do not understand the full danger of not using a PFD. Allot of older children think they are indestructible so it is up to adults to ensure children put a PFD on.
As for us adults using them or not, well that would be the individuals choice after accessing the risk. What about the people that die as a direct result of not wearing one leave behind.

The following is from a US site, but is probable much the same on percentages over here.

Quote:
The 750 fatalities reverse a downward trend and are at their highest level since 1998 when 815 fatalities were reported.

Seventy percent of all fatal boating accident victims drowned (524 out of 750).
Nearly 85% of the victims who drowned were not wearing their personal flotation device (PFD or lifejacket). Overall, fatal accident data show approximately 440 lives could have been saved last year if boaters had worn their lifejackets.

The most reported types of accidents are collisions with other vessels. However,
capsizing and falls overboard are the most reported types of fatal accidents and account for over half (56%) of all boating fatalities.
__________________
v666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 September 2007, 23:05   #47
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: swansea
Boat name: Too Blue
Make: BLANK
Length: 8m +
Engine: Suzuki DT225
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,791
http://www.rospa.com/waterandleisure...statistics.htm

42 people died by drowning in the bath

22 people died in boating accidents

34 died when swimming - or trying to

Seems to me you would be better off wearing a PFD in the bath!!!
__________________
codprawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 September 2007, 00:19   #48
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Cowes
Boat name: Niam-ho
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 7m +
Engine: Suzuki DF250
MMSI: 235040417
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn View Post
How many kids do you see wearing a lifejacket on the beach - or when they are swimming in the water???
So do kids in Wales swim at +20 knots???
__________________
Girls like RIBs too!
NautiAndNice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 September 2007, 00:44   #49
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: swansea
Boat name: Too Blue
Make: BLANK
Length: 8m +
Engine: Suzuki DT225
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,791
What difference does that make? Deaths from drowning in boating accidents is only a very small part of the total - your child is far more likely to die from drowning well away from boats - are you going to get them to wear a lifejacket all day long?
__________________
codprawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 September 2007, 01:07   #50
Member
 
Country: Other
Town: San Carlos, Mexico
Boat name: INDE
Make: LOMAC 730
Length: 7m +
Engine: 200 Merc.
MMSI: Please press 1
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,688
Send a message via Skype™ to Limey Linda
Common sense

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common
Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how
old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic
red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable
lessons as:

Knowing when to come in out of the rain;

Why the early bird gets the worm;

Life isn't always fair; and maybe it WAS my fault.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't
spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not
children, are in charge).

His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned
but overbearing regulations were set in place.

Reports of a 6 year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for
kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash
after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student,
only worsened his condition.

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for
doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining
their unruly children.

It declined even further when schools were required to get
parental consent to administer Calpol, sun lotion or a band-aid to a
student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and
wanted to have an abortion.

Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments
became contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received
better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself
from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for
assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman
failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a
little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and
Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son,
Reason.

He is survived by his 3 stepbrothers; I Know My Rights; Someone
Else Is To Blame, and I'm A Victim.

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was
gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the
majority and do nothing.
__________________
Running around like a head with it's chicken cut off.
Limey Linda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 September 2007, 03:02   #51
Member
 
Country: Canada
Town: Tobermory, Canada eh
Boat name: Verius
Make: Zodiac Hurricane 590
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yamaha F150
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,366
Send a message via MSN to Stoo
I am often one who will poke fun at over-regulation when it comes to safety. But, when my kids were young, they never left the dock without pdfs ON... nor did we. Part of the reason for this is that for much of the boating season, the water here is so cold that a person in the water is completely incapacitated after just a few minutes. A pfd will keep them afloat until the boat can return to fish them out should they fall in the drink. Incidently, the few ribs over here never have the type of seating yours do. I have a double jockey. Everyone else sits on the toobs. (When the wee ones were "wee" they sat on the deck...)

One other point: Regardless of a skipper's skill and judgement, sometimes the excrement just hits the ventilator. Three or four years ago, there was a collision between two small boats on an inland lake in "cottage country" north of Toronto. It happened well after dark. One boat was motoring slowly as was appropriate for the time of day and nature of the water. The other was running full tilt, operated by a drunk driver. Not one of the 7 people on either of the boats was wearing a PFD. The slower boat was hit amidship and cut in two, tossing the four passengers into the water. Three drowned. It was determined that these three were likely knocked unconscious and subsequently drowned. Presumably had they been wearing a flotation device, they would be alive today.

Of course the drunk's boat was only slightly damaged and no one on his boat was even slightly injured.
__________________
Pump it up and RIDE!

www.wetspotimages.com
Stoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 September 2007, 06:45   #52
Administrator
 
John Kennett's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Brighton
Length: 3m +
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 7,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn View Post
42 people died by drowning in the bath

22 people died in boating accidents
. . . and if the number of people having a bath each year was the same as the number of people going boating these numbers might possibly have some meaning.

However quoting raw statistic like this merely serves to make you look foolish.

Based on your posts in this thread I would say your risk assessment abilities leave a lot to be desired!

John
__________________
John Kennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 September 2007, 07:50   #53
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Southampton
Boat name: DynaMoHumm/ SRV/deja
Make: Avon8.4, 5.4 & 4.777
Length: 8m +
Engine: Cat3126 Yam 90 &70
MMSI: 42
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,562
so just so I understand the collective thinking.....Just how many deaths a year are Ok in boating accidents?

Starting Bid seems to be 22 any advances?
__________________
Here it comes again, I don't stand a chance
Soul possession, Got me in a trance
Pullin' me back to you - Deja Voodoo
Rogue Wave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 September 2007, 08:13   #54
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Poole
Length: no boat
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn View Post
http://www.rospa.com/waterandleisure...statistics.htm

42 people died by drowning in the bath

22 people died in boating accidents

34 died when swimming - or trying to

Seems to me you would be better off wearing a PFD in the bath!!!
What they don't tell you is the 34 people who died from "swimming" were flung out of boats
__________________
MarkWildey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 September 2007, 10:03   #55
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: scotland
Boat name: Leviathan
Make: Phantom
Length: 8m +
Engine: GM Diesels
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkWildey View Post
What they don't tell you is the 34 people who died from "swimming" were flung out of RIBs
Fixed that for you.
__________________
Jonny Fuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 September 2007, 10:16   #56
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Colchester/Clevedon
Boat name: Barracuda
Make: Porters
Length: 5m +
Engine: Tohatsu 50hp
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 249
I think the key thing we are missing here is the element of "freedom of choice". You're free to either wear a lifejacket or not - you take the risks associated with that choice.

Did I wear a lifejacket as a kid - not if I wasn't forced too, or unless I was doing watersports. Do I wear one now, yes when moving at speed. But I'm not gonna preach about whether someone else does or not, it's there choice. It's also their choice or how to bring up and guard their children
__________________
GuyP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 September 2007, 13:01   #57
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sunny South West
Boat name: Lundy Osprey
Make: Shakespear
Length: 6m +
Engine: Petrol Tohatsu 90
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 34
Hi all new to here and first post. Have been messing about in boats for some time now and now own a RIB, take my twin Grandchildren out who are just a little bit older (guessing) than the child in the picture. Knowing how when things go wrong, at sea and in life sometimes, they happen so quickly, why would you not put a lifejacket on a child that age. Accept all the arguments about risk assesment, children learning risks etc but I have and so do the people with that child have due to thier age a resposibility for their safety.
That child can't make a judgment on risk and it's no good to say I thought it would be alright. Looking back through previous posts found the story of the RIB being flipped on launching from a beach and traping the guy underneath, had done it lots of times, never a problem before and if it were not for the A frame may not have got out. It happens sometimes to even experienced people. Sorry but I can't for the life of me understand why you would not put a lifejacket on a child that small. Apploogies for banging on, my next post will on a lighter note hopefully.
Steve
__________________
Lundy Osprey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 September 2007, 14:36   #58
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: Wildheart
Make: Humber/Delta Seasafe
Length: 5m +
Engine: Merc 60 Clamshell
MMSI: 235068449
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,667
bottom line

If you smack your head on the Frame / cleat / side of the poontoon in the nice calm, sheltered marina / <add suitable random bizarre scenario that nobody would believe unless they actually saw it> where you end up in the water unconcious then it wouldn't matter if you were the trans atlantic swimming endurance record holder - you ain't gonna bring your mouth above water alone.

If you're unconcious, age & swimming ability become totally irrelevant. The rest is a risk assesement you have to make.



(and up this corner of the world a bouyancy aid makes quite a good extra layer to keep you warm!)
__________________
9D280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 September 2007, 16:21   #59
Member
 
Country: Other
Town: Christiansted.V.I.
Boat name: Froggy
Make: Avon SeaRider
Length: 4m +
Engine: Johnson 50
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundy Osprey View Post
why would you not put a lifejacket on a child that age.
To answer your question Steve, you would not if you either had a death wish for your child or your awareness of the world around you is so stunted that you are also likely to step out in the street in front of a bus.

This thread started over the pic of the toddler unrestrained with no pfd in a boat moving at speed. I've read it all and may I repeat: Put the PFDs on the children on the pier or in the boat.

Welcome to the forum Steve!
__________________
Tomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 September 2007, 18:05   #60
RIBnet admin team
 
Nos4r2's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: The wilds of Wiltshire
Boat name: Dominator
Make: SR5.4
Length: 7m +
Engine: Yam 85
MMSI: 235055163
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 13,053
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Wave View Post
so just so I understand the collective thinking.....Just how many deaths a year are Ok in boating accidents?

Starting Bid seems to be 22 any advances?

Double that is fine if it's jetskiers round Poole

Seriously though, I think the problem with people and lifejackets is that they simply don't understand that if they go in fully clothed at speed they have very little chance without one-and unless they get into that situation they won't ever understand it. By then it's a bit too late.

If people actually fully understand the risk then fair enough-but it's akin to a situation that happened last year to Sixy.(posted with her kind permission)

She drives to work through a twisty road in a village that isn't gritted and when icy it's lethal. She came back and told me she'd slowed right down to 15mph on the corners because she could see ice on the road. I said that she was still going far too fast and a heated discussion ensued.
2 days later she was going round one of the bends at 15mph and the car went round 180 degrees on black ice. Luckily there wasn't anything coming-and it took that happening to bring home how slow you need to drive on ice.

The point is-you can't perceive the degree of risk or accurately assess it unless you've either experienced it first hand or seen the consequences first hand.
Experience is and always will be a far more powerful teaching tool than a load of pedantic old berks (myself included)on a forum ranting about safety.
__________________
Need spares,consoles,consumables,hire,training or even a new boat?

Please click HERE and HERE and support our Trade Members.

Join up as a Trade member or Supporter HERE
Nos4r2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 02:08.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.