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Old 27 September 2007, 23:02   #51
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I am often one who will poke fun at over-regulation when it comes to safety. But, when my kids were young, they never left the dock without pdfs ON... nor did we. Part of the reason for this is that for much of the boating season, the water here is so cold that a person in the water is completely incapacitated after just a few minutes. A pfd will keep them afloat until the boat can return to fish them out should they fall in the drink. Incidently, the few ribs over here never have the type of seating yours do. I have a double jockey. Everyone else sits on the toobs. (When the wee ones were "wee" they sat on the deck...)

One other point: Regardless of a skipper's skill and judgement, sometimes the excrement just hits the ventilator. Three or four years ago, there was a collision between two small boats on an inland lake in "cottage country" north of Toronto. It happened well after dark. One boat was motoring slowly as was appropriate for the time of day and nature of the water. The other was running full tilt, operated by a drunk driver. Not one of the 7 people on either of the boats was wearing a PFD. The slower boat was hit amidship and cut in two, tossing the four passengers into the water. Three drowned. It was determined that these three were likely knocked unconscious and subsequently drowned. Presumably had they been wearing a flotation device, they would be alive today.

Of course the drunk's boat was only slightly damaged and no one on his boat was even slightly injured.
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Old 28 September 2007, 02:45   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn View Post
42 people died by drowning in the bath

22 people died in boating accidents
. . . and if the number of people having a bath each year was the same as the number of people going boating these numbers might possibly have some meaning.

However quoting raw statistic like this merely serves to make you look foolish.

Based on your posts in this thread I would say your risk assessment abilities leave a lot to be desired!

John
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Old 28 September 2007, 03:50   #53
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so just so I understand the collective thinking.....Just how many deaths a year are Ok in boating accidents?

Starting Bid seems to be 22 any advances?
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Old 28 September 2007, 04:13   #54
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Originally Posted by codprawn View Post
http://www.rospa.com/waterandleisure...statistics.htm

42 people died by drowning in the bath

22 people died in boating accidents

34 died when swimming - or trying to

Seems to me you would be better off wearing a PFD in the bath!!!
What they don't tell you is the 34 people who died from "swimming" were flung out of boats
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Old 28 September 2007, 06:03   #55
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What they don't tell you is the 34 people who died from "swimming" were flung out of RIBs
Fixed that for you.
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Old 28 September 2007, 06:16   #56
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I think the key thing we are missing here is the element of "freedom of choice". You're free to either wear a lifejacket or not - you take the risks associated with that choice.

Did I wear a lifejacket as a kid - not if I wasn't forced too, or unless I was doing watersports. Do I wear one now, yes when moving at speed. But I'm not gonna preach about whether someone else does or not, it's there choice. It's also their choice or how to bring up and guard their children
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Old 28 September 2007, 09:01   #57
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Hi all new to here and first post. Have been messing about in boats for some time now and now own a RIB, take my twin Grandchildren out who are just a little bit older (guessing) than the child in the picture. Knowing how when things go wrong, at sea and in life sometimes, they happen so quickly, why would you not put a lifejacket on a child that age. Accept all the arguments about risk assesment, children learning risks etc but I have and so do the people with that child have due to thier age a resposibility for their safety.
That child can't make a judgment on risk and it's no good to say I thought it would be alright. Looking back through previous posts found the story of the RIB being flipped on launching from a beach and traping the guy underneath, had done it lots of times, never a problem before and if it were not for the A frame may not have got out. It happens sometimes to even experienced people. Sorry but I can't for the life of me understand why you would not put a lifejacket on a child that small. Apploogies for banging on, my next post will on a lighter note hopefully.
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Old 28 September 2007, 10:36   #58
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bottom line

If you smack your head on the Frame / cleat / side of the poontoon in the nice calm, sheltered marina / <add suitable random bizarre scenario that nobody would believe unless they actually saw it> where you end up in the water unconcious then it wouldn't matter if you were the trans atlantic swimming endurance record holder - you ain't gonna bring your mouth above water alone.

If you're unconcious, age & swimming ability become totally irrelevant. The rest is a risk assesement you have to make.



(and up this corner of the world a bouyancy aid makes quite a good extra layer to keep you warm!)
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Old 28 September 2007, 12:21   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundy Osprey View Post
why would you not put a lifejacket on a child that age.
To answer your question Steve, you would not if you either had a death wish for your child or your awareness of the world around you is so stunted that you are also likely to step out in the street in front of a bus.

This thread started over the pic of the toddler unrestrained with no pfd in a boat moving at speed. I've read it all and may I repeat: Put the PFDs on the children on the pier or in the boat.

Welcome to the forum Steve!
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Old 28 September 2007, 14:05   #60
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so just so I understand the collective thinking.....Just how many deaths a year are Ok in boating accidents?

Starting Bid seems to be 22 any advances?

Double that is fine if it's jetskiers round Poole

Seriously though, I think the problem with people and lifejackets is that they simply don't understand that if they go in fully clothed at speed they have very little chance without one-and unless they get into that situation they won't ever understand it. By then it's a bit too late.

If people actually fully understand the risk then fair enough-but it's akin to a situation that happened last year to Sixy.(posted with her kind permission)

She drives to work through a twisty road in a village that isn't gritted and when icy it's lethal. She came back and told me she'd slowed right down to 15mph on the corners because she could see ice on the road. I said that she was still going far too fast and a heated discussion ensued.
2 days later she was going round one of the bends at 15mph and the car went round 180 degrees on black ice. Luckily there wasn't anything coming-and it took that happening to bring home how slow you need to drive on ice.

The point is-you can't perceive the degree of risk or accurately assess it unless you've either experienced it first hand or seen the consequences first hand.
Experience is and always will be a far more powerful teaching tool than a load of pedantic old berks (myself included)on a forum ranting about safety.
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