Idiots...

[Carl]

correct

[Tims Osprey]

Originally Posted by NickC

We're talking generally now about whether kids of toddler age should or shouldn't wear life jackets which I think is a perfectly valid topic for discussion.

What would you like to talk about?

What is there tu talk about? Off coarse kids of any age should wear life jackets, so should everybody, but when yu see somebody not doing it there is no need for this big wave of oh no tu be honest when i am out on my boat i am tu busy enjoying my own time tu even notice what everybody else is or isn't doing.

[floater]

i am sure its been said before but

maybe i am paronoid or just a crap driver but NO body goes on my RIB with out a some form of PFD because you dont know what happens next or whats round the next corner or under the water

whilst on the subject the whole boat industry is liable for the poor promotion of safety, look at all the boat ads sunny days 2 girls one bloke or familys

look at valiant they even have a rib comming off a wave with 4 kids on with no lifejackets make your own assumptions on this one below

http://www.valiant-boats.com/

almost every boat advert that you see does not promote the use of PFDs

yes i know some do (avon in particular) but they should all do it

rant over

Andy

[Doug Stormforce]

I think this discussion has got lost somwhere.

Who cares how good a swimmer you are? The difficulties that you encounter when you land in cold water are nothing to do with swimming ability.

Why would you remove layers of clothing when in cold water? They are the only thing that is helping insulate your body. Boots are particauully good at this.

Why would you not give your child a life jacket and wear one yourself to set a good example? Isnt responsible parenting about setting a good example.

[prairie tuber]

Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce

Why would you remove layers of clothing when in cold water? They are the only thing that is helping insulate your body. Boots are particauully good at this.

Assuming one is wearing a PFD, it would not make sense to remove clothing. If one is not wearing a PFD (for very important reasons such as not looking as cool while wearing PFDs, and having learned to swim as a child and are therefore really good at it - even when unconscious ) clothing such as denim jeans, heavy sweaters & particularly leather boots, will have alot of negative bouyancy.

[Doug Stormforce]

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

Assuming one is wearing a PFD, it would not make sense to remove clothing. If one is not wearing a PFD (for very important reasons such as not looking as cool while wearing PFDs, and having learned to swim as a child and are therefore really good at it - even when unconscious ) clothing such as denim jeans, heavy sweaters & particularly leather boots, will have alot of negative bouyancy.

I would suggest a different course of action. Minimise movement and DONT TRY TO MOVE BOOTS ETC. Their have been many reported cases of people dying who have tried to remove boots etc (have a look on google), in some cases the coroner has attributed this as one of the reasons for brining on hypothermia and drowning, it is a myth that this is a good idea and in fact this myth has killed.

The reasons are four fold.

1/. First you use alot of energy to remove boots while in cold water, energy you can not afford to loose.

2/. Thrashing around trying to remove boots causes air trapped in your clothing to escape, this air is key in aiding bouyancy and providing insulation. Two things that are critical to your survival.

3/. The boots themselves trap air (see above), so are not in fact negativly bouyant.

4/. The boots provide a layer of insualtion.

The exception is when boots etc are hampering you from climbing out of the water or back into/onto a boat.

[codprawn]

I agree there - unless you have lead boots as used by divers many years ago then keeping your boots on shouldn't do any harm. They will either be full of air or water - if full of water they will not drag you down as you are in the water anyway - in fact most boots will float as they are made of rubber or similar.

[prairie tuber]

Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce

I would suggest a different course of action. Minimise movement and DONT TRY TO MOVE BOOTS ETC. Their have been many reported cases of people dying who have tried to remove boots etc (have a look on google), in some cases the coroner has attributed this as one of the reasons for brining on hypothermia and drowning, it is a myth that this is a good idea and in fact this myth has killed.

The reasons are four fold.

1/. First you use alot of energy to remove boots while in cold water, energy you can not afford to loose.

2/. Thrashing around trying to remove boots causes air trapped in your clothing to escape, this air is key in aiding bouyancy and providing insulation. Two things that are critical to your survival.

3/. The boots themselves trap air (see above), so are not in fact negativly bouyant.

4/. The boots provide a layer of insualtion.

The exception is when boots etc are hampering you from climbing out of the water or back into/onto a boat.

I'm aware of the fact that drowning victims have died while trying to remove the boots. The type of boots I'm particulary referring to are leather hiking/hunting boots, which once waterlogged become very heavy and tend to make self propulsion back to a boat (or nearby shore) very difficult. The point is, that no matter how good a swimmer you are, bouyancy devices while boating are critical (particulary whe on cold water). These 3 videos are definitely worth watching and effectively show what a huge difference wearing a floatation suit can make when dumped in cold water;

http://www.yukonman.com/cold_water.asp