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Old 31 January 2014, 14:54   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j.i.wilson View Post
supposing every new engine came with a blue tooth (type) radio, ie short range

supposing every new engine came with a toggle that the short range radio could detect at , say 10m

supposing if the engine radio lost contact with the toggle

suppose that killed the engine

suppose the toggles cost 10 so all passengers could have one.

suppose this could be bypassed for 30 mnutes by flicking a switch on the engine

suppose the whole lot cost 30

why would this be bad?
Once again human error could creep in I.E not wearing the toggle like not wearing the kill cord.
You may just as well stick with the couple of pound plastic coated piece of string that works if you use it.
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Old 31 January 2014, 16:08   #192
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I've sussed it....



Junk the outboards and lets get ourselves some paddles.
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Old 31 January 2014, 16:13   #193
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Originally Posted by j.i.wilson View Post
supposing every new engine came with a blue tooth (type) radio, ie short range
There is a guy over on PBO's forum doing just that for his yacht as MOB alarm.
YAPP idea - MOB alert system

Quote:
supposing every new engine came with a toggle that the short range radio could detect at , say 10m

supposing if the engine radio lost contact with the toggle
YAPP's system could be rigged to do that.

So you drop your mate off on a jetty have he heads off with your toggle, you have lunch and now you go to leave and engine wont start as toggle missing, so you override --> you are no better than the situation the MAIB describe where it was possible the helm didn't put the KC on because she was only travelling a few hundred yards to the mooring.

Quote:
suppose that killed the engine

suppose the toggles cost 10 so all passengers could have one.
That cost is within the YAPP budget. Not within a commerical one though.
Quote:
suppose this could be bypassed for 30 mnutes by flicking a switch on the engine
Up till then you were not a million miles off a solution. Then you provided an override
YAPP have options to over ride single toggle. Would need to decide what happens if whole system fails.
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suppose the whole lot cost 30
YAPP costs - but its a not for profit.

BUT the **whole** cost 30 - I can't replace a KC and switch for that??
The toggle was 10. So thats 2 toggles and a VERY cheap base. More like 30 base, 10 toggle. Need 4 or 5 toggles. Total cost 80 + fitting for a very small solution.

Battery powered toggle. When battery dies people will disable it.

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why would this be bad?
Because you haven't found a way to stop them being left in a locker. Left in my jacket pocket but I take my jacket off coz its hot etc.
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Originally Posted by Nos4r2 View Post
Because a boat can circle in 10m and 10m is a lot further than the length of a killcord.

IF you were talking about a killcord replacement that is.

Somehow the concept of any part of a proper waterproof marine bluetooth device costing a tenner eludes me
The YAPP system doesn't need to be that waterproof. it alarms if the toggle fails. You'd only want it to be waterproof to prevent false alarms.
The base unit would want to be waterproof but doable in budget I expect.
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Originally Posted by teamplonker View Post
Once again human error could creep in I.E not wearing the toggle like not wearing the kill cord.
You may just as well stick with the couple of pound plastic coated piece of string that works if you use it.
I agree. Had the helm not been wearing a KC because she'd been to the bow to get a mooring boy or lift the anchor single handed etc then this might have been a logical solution as the KC might not have been long enough... but she just forgot to put it on.

To catch that you need some means that if you are taking the KC off while still have power you maybe have either a mechanical process or an electrickery one that means you can't go above fast idle ?
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Old 31 January 2014, 16:16   #194
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Why fast idle? Do you think the prop will only kill you a little bit?
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Old 31 January 2014, 16:32   #195
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the problem with toggles / kill cords / etc. is simply that the system includes a human decision to use it...

plenty of systems built into cars which are automatic - plenty of systems built into hedge trimmers / drills / lawn mowers / strimmers / etc. which require continual involvement to keep the engine running...

it would be neither expensive nor difficult to come up with such a system, but it would be more expensive than a kill cord so persuading manufacturers to include it would be difficult unless regulatory, and that is unlikely...

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Old 31 January 2014, 16:49   #196
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You can make systems as smart as you like but they are only any good if people use them. Killcords work effectively - if you use them. Simple really...
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Old 31 January 2014, 16:49   #197
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Why fast idle? Do you think the prop will only kill you a little bit?
Yip. I'd rather be a little bit dead than a big but dead.

I was assuming that there are times when someone legitimately wants to be underway but not tethered. I struggle to find any need to be at WOT without tether.

I was also assuming you are less likely to be forcefully ejected if not making massive way through the water.

I may have been assuming the severity of any contact would be less in that you may be able to get away from the boat at lower speed...?

But it wasn't perfect. (A) because the prop will still be turning (B) because last time I saw someone go overboard on a rib (not the helm) it was idling and they were getting off onto a jetty. Coming alongside single handed is one of those times you *might* want the engine to stay alive but need to leave the throttle and *might* be more likely to go for a swim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by akirk View Post
the problem with toggles / kill cords / etc. is simply that the system includes a human decision to use it...

plenty of systems built into cars which are automatic - plenty of systems built into hedge trimmers / drills / lawn mowers / strimmers / etc. which require continual involvement to keep the engine running...

it would be neither expensive nor difficult to come up with such a system,
I've never used a hedge trimmer, drill or lawnmover while bouncing over waves.

I've never been in a situation where if my hedge trimmer suddenly stopped trimming I might be in a gravely dangerous situation.

I've never been in a situation where I wanted to use my hedge trimmer hands free while I tried to pick up a mooring buoy...
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Old 01 February 2014, 03:10   #198
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IDEA!
Inexpensive, unintrusive, non eletronic, no possible human error factor.
What about a spring loaded throttle, I'm sure I have read about them somewhere on here.
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Old 01 February 2014, 03:33   #199
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I cannot see anything that can be done to force people to use killcords or any type of hi-tech alternative to killcords that won't severely impact on safety at a different point.
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Old 01 February 2014, 03:40   #200
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There have been kill cords on boat controller for 30 odd years. There were idiots then the same as now. If there was something that was twat proof we would be using it by now
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