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Old 06 May 2013, 17:25   #11
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Just an idea re kill switches

How about a radio kill cord.

Low range (say, 5m) transponder that the helm wears.
All the time he's in the boat the engine is "live".
As soon as he's thrown out, engine killed.
No need to actually clip on anything. Transponder just needs to be in your pocket.

I'm not sure if i'm imagining this but I think I read about something like this in development a few years ago.

Come to think of it a lot of new cars have keyless entry that could surely be adapted to this purpose.

Terrible tragic accident and i'm sure we've all forgotten to clip on the kill cord on more than one occasion - I know I have.
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Old 06 May 2013, 17:52   #12
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quick search reveals

Boating To A New Level Of Safety - autotether.com
References for CoastKey

Ideas are good but it's more electronics in salt water....
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Old 06 May 2013, 17:52   #13
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Sure theses are available already, but still not infallible!
As you still need it on your person you may change jacket or trousers and forget to transfer the transponder, I dare say you would get some people clipping it to the keys, fat lot of good that would do!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Searider View Post
How about a radio kill cord.

Low range (say, 5m) transponder that the helm wears.
All the time he's in the boat the engine is "live".
As soon as he's thrown out, engine killed.
No need to actually clip on anything. Transponder just needs to be in your pocket.

I'm not sure if i'm imagining this but I think I read about something like this in development a few years ago.

Come to think of it a lot of new cars have keyless entry that could surely be adapted to this purpose.

Terrible tragic accident and i'm sure we've all forgotten to clip on the kill cord on more than one occasion - I know I have.
As to some saying mandatory training, not a bad idea but it may not have prevented this happening! You only have to look at the level of driving skills out on the road to see this is not fall proof!

And anther point is why people judge him on the fact he is a successful in life and can afford a nice rib and second home really what has it to do with this tragedy, I'm sure he did not mean for this to happen, are we all so perfect on here? I think not
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Old 06 May 2013, 18:22   #14
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These look good...
Boating To A New Level Of Safety - autotether.com
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Old 07 May 2013, 17:15   #15
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Kill Cord & Circling Boat Inventions

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Originally Posted by wavelength View Post
I'm thinking the way forward for us may be a kill cord on every buoyancy aid/lifejacket on the boat and no spare. That way (unless they flip the switch) when you leave the helm the cord comes out and cant be started by another crew member unless he clips his personal kill cord into the switch, and he needs to actually have possession of the buoyance aid.
As the discussion of kill cord inventions continues, I would like to throw a couple ideas we posted to the public domain (for anyone to use) over the last few years.

1. Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) tag built into a life jacket or attached as a patch for use as a combination life jacket AND virtual kill cord. If you move too far from the helm the boat shuts down (just like the radio kill cords discussed earlier do). It encourages the operator to wear both a life jacket and a kill cord (similar to Wavelength's approach, but wireless).

RFID Boat Kill Switches (Engine Cut-Off Switches) Five PGIC Invention Disclosures Posted August 29, 2011 :: Propeller Guard Information Center

2. System for Automatically Detecting and Stopping Boats in the Circle of Death

Identifies several means for determining boats are unmanned and circling, then automatically shutting them down. This approach requires NO action by the operator.

Circle of Death Boat Propeller Accident Invention :: Propeller Guard Information Center

The invention descriptions are a bit legal because we have previously posted other similar inventions and had them taken and patented by others. So we started detailing them enough to be sure they remained in the public domain (open to use by all).

gary
PropellerSafety.com
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Old 08 May 2013, 07:31   #16
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Originally Posted by behavin View Post
wireless cords ? no way ! it has to be a physical attachment to the boat and the driver..as fail safe as it gets
.
Well, maybe. I have a 30-odd YO engine. The failsafe is that the switch is held open and when the cord is removed it shorts the ignition. Even if I test it before leaving the harbour, how do I know the connection inside the engine hasn't shaken loose as I head out over the waves?

The only way to properly failsafe is to have something like triple paralell wiring so 2/3 can fail "en route" & still work. Should also have a warning that will tell you if "non agreement" between the three cables is detected...or should it just shut the engine down?. Hang on, it's the old "Lee shore in a F6 and you can't motor off due to a grumpy engine management box" scenario again... etc etc.

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Originally Posted by akirk View Post
Is there any reason that you can't have a dead-man's switch like the ones on your lawnmower - on the throttle - release of switch and engine returns to idle / or even turns off - there is mention above of spring loaded throttles - are they not a better approach (though with the engine still idling - not sure if that is ideal)

We have a lot of technology elsewhere - from car seats with pressure sensors to detect whether you (or your shopping!) is wearing a seat belt - to lawn mowers / etc. It wouldn't be difficult to put these ideas into a boat - nor expensive, and I am sure that if we did - in 10 years time no-one would worry about the loss of the kill cord and letting the tech sort it out...
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Originally Posted by Rokraider View Post
personally, I often stand <etc>

There is some good discussion here, and I have to agree with Rokraider in that it's going to have to be more high tech than a simple pressure switch (my throttle frictrion screw was slightly loose at Easdale last weekend and I can tell you it was an @rse of a thing to drive for more than about 10 mins) I too was on & off the seat like a jack-in the box due to the weather conditions, so we're probably looking at some form of (as I said above) probably dual or triple optical sensor with comaparators..... (and if anyone patents that - note the time & date of this post )

Two problems with uber high tech solutions - there is more to go wrong (corroded connections etc) and even if they were a legislative must, to use the automotive comparison even in cars there are still a fair few Morris Minors / Austin 7s out there that (I think) you can still get away without a seatbelt if it wasn't fitted (as an optional extra) back in 1957 when it left the factory... (I am open to correction on that, but the simiar theme certianly applies to emmissions!)

Do you insist retro fitting all boats? Do you just live with the fact that there will not ever be a "universal" use of this new system? (and lets face it- how many Ribs are on here >20YO, and we on the forum are generally up to speed with the latest tech - how many Fletcher Arrowsports get dug out once a year and get towed somewhere on screeching brearings by people who go out as often as their boat sees water? What are the chances of them even kowing this new gizmo must be fitted?
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Old 08 May 2013, 07:45   #17
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There are cheap proximity immobilisers available for cars, one of my cars has one, you can only start the ignition if it is range, I'm sure a relay & some simple wiring will do the job easily.

A quick rummage on ebay reveals infra red proximity sensors, so electronics could be hidden behind a panel with just a the infrared unit poking through.

Infrared Proximity Sensor Switch E18-D80NK 3-80cm Adjustable Robot/Pi/PIC | eBay

NEW Sick WT34-R210 (1 019 232) Photoelectric Proximity Switch WT34R210 Sensor | eBay


Maybe we should start a seperate thread on the subject of kill switch ideas & designs?
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Old 08 May 2013, 08:04   #18
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Proximity Sensor Kill Switch

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Originally Posted by Rokraider View Post
personally, I often stand as I am going along as I am usually looking for people in the water and want the best view, so a pressure switch would not work for me....A proximity sensor seems a good idea, similar to the modern cars
Dick Snyder (well known propeller accident expert at Mercury Marine) co-invented such a device and Mercury patented it in 2002.

  • U.S. Patent 6,450,845 Passive Occupant Sensing System for a Watercraft. By Dick Snyder, assigned to Brunswick on 17 Sept. 2002. An infrared system detects if the operator is in the boat driving seat or not (somewhat like a lanyard kill switch) and takes the appropriate actions if the boat is underway and the driver is gone (likely overboard).
Patent US6450845 - Passive occupant sensing system for a watercraft - Google Patents
click on download pdf in top right corner of link above to see full patent

While Mercury did not actually produce and sell this device, Mr. Snyder has previously said on numerous occasions that Mercury will grant rights to anyone to manufacture boat safety devices they have patented.

It would certainly be a good place to start if someone was interested in resurrecting this concept.

gary
propellersafety.com
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Old 09 May 2013, 11:20   #19
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I think an antiquated lanyard system is partly to blame... it's 2013, a new engine will costs you best part of 15k, yet we still rely on a piece of orange string clipped to your life jacket !?

My phone can turn my heating on from my office, yet the big 5 Engine companies cant make a simple wireless lanyard system as standard ? Keyless entry on a Ford Fiesta which costs less than my boat comes as standard.

Start blaming the multi-million pound companies that build the engines, not the poor sods that forget to clip on a calm day. Chucking a key fob in your pocket would take 5 seconds, you could still dock, pick up a diver, help a waterskier and wonder around the boat... but when the sh*t hits the fan and you fall out the boat stops - Rocket Science it aint.

Just my 2p.
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Old 16 May 2013, 20:15   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nos4r2 View Post

It's a good point-it'd be quite easy to go over trying to pullstart a motor on an aux bracket.
Always remember an old guy from our boat club who had an old seagull engine as an aux on his sailing boat
When he was alone in the boat he would tie a piece of line to the spark plug cap with the view if he fell over the line would pull off the plug cap stopping the motor .
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