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Old 31 January 2014, 11:04   #181
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Nothing wrong with a damn good thrashing, never did me any harm, harumff
Heavens above - a Public Schoolboy on Ribnet! Whatever next?
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Old 31 January 2014, 11:12   #182
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@ Pikey Dave.

Why do you insist on a different system being "idiot proof" and/or "reliable" to any greater extent than the kill cord system. The kill cord system is far from idiot proof. The device itself is robust and reliable but the system as a whole is not reliable (as was shown).

Two systems do not have to be mutually exclusive. There is no reason I can see why an electronic system with some <operator control present> test could not be developed and installed in addition to a kill cord. Possibly there may be an option for it to be manually disabled so that advanced operators would would rely on the kill cord alone (in the same way that I can choose to disable ESP in my car).
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Old 31 January 2014, 12:19   #183
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@ Pikey Dave.

Why do you insist on a different system being "idiot proof" and/or "reliable" to any greater extent than the kill cord system. The kill cord system is far from idiot proof. The device itself is robust and reliable but the system as a whole is not reliable (as was shown). ).
I think the system on the whole is reliable, human error is the problem ( as was shown ).
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Old 31 January 2014, 12:22   #184
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Originally Posted by Observer View Post
@ Pikey Dave.

Why do you insist on a different system being "idiot proof" and/or "reliable" to any greater extent than the kill cord system. The kill cord system is far from idiot proof. The device itself is robust and reliable but the system as a whole is not reliable (as was shown). Can't argue with that

Two systems do not have to be mutually exclusive. There is no reason I can see why an electronic system with some <operator control present> test could not be developed and installed in addition to a kill cord. Possibly there may be an option for it to be manually disabled so that advanced operators would would rely on the kill cord alone (in the same way that I can choose to disable ESP in my car).So you want to add another imperfect /flawed system on top of another?
As I said, show me a system that is better than the one we have & I'll buy it. All you are proposing is more of the same. I think it's fair to say that we would all like a system that works regardless of the human input, but as yet, that system does not exist. All you are proposing is an ideal, a concept, that was covered ad nauseum in the thread. Tell me how this system of yours will work, how it will be implemented in a marine environment, how much it will cost. When you've perfected that, we'll move on to lifejackets At some point we have to accept that we are human, fallible, & have to suffer the consequences of our actions. To think that we can solve everything with science/money/regulation is delusional..... IMHO of course
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Old 31 January 2014, 12:32   #185
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Originally Posted by Observer View Post
@ Pikey Dave.

Why do you insist on a different system being "idiot proof" and/or "reliable" to any greater extent than the kill cord system. The kill cord system is far from idiot proof. The device itself is robust and reliable but the system as a whole is not reliable (as was shown).

Two systems do not have to be mutually exclusive. There is no reason I can see why an electronic system with some <operator control present> test could not be developed and installed in addition to a kill cord. Possibly there may be an option for it to be manually disabled so that advanced operators would would rely on the kill cord alone (in the same way that I can choose to disable ESP in my car).
Its great that people are thinking about "improving" the concept of the kill cord, to make it unavoidable/forgettable. It sounds like it would need to involve some kind of electronics, proximity, wireless etc and I think what Pikey Dave is saying is that - when the going gets interesting, relying on something like that to not fail and disable the engine may not be his cup of tea, something I have to agree with.
The two systems do not have to be mutually exclusive - as you say, but if I have a kill cord and switch I think I would pass on any electronic ancilliary device...
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Old 31 January 2014, 14:31   #186
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supposing every new engine came with a blue tooth (type) radio, ie short range

supposing every new engine came with a toggle that the short range radio could detect at , say 10m

supposing if the engine radio lost contact with the toggle

suppose that killed the engine

suppose the toggles cost 10 so all passengers could have one.

suppose this could be bypassed for 30 mnutes by flicking a switch on the engine

suppose the whole lot cost 30

why would this be bad?
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Old 31 January 2014, 14:43   #187
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supposing if the engine radio lost contact with the toggle

suppose that killed the engine

why would this be bad?
suppose that you were manouvering in a big beam sea

suppose you were in a big following sea

suppose that the engine was killed

suppose you had to leave the helm to go back to the engine to restart it

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Old 31 January 2014, 14:44   #188
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Originally Posted by j.i.wilson View Post
supposing every new engine came with a blue tooth (type) radio, ie short range

supposing every new engine came with a toggle that the short range radio could detect at , say 10m

supposing if the engine radio lost contact with the toggle

suppose that killed the engine

suppose the toggles cost 10 so all passengers could have one.

suppose this could be bypassed for 30 mnutes by flicking a switch on the engine

suppose the whole lot cost 30

why would this be bad?
Because a boat can circle in 10m and 10m is a lot further than the length of a killcord.

IF you were talking about a killcord replacement that is.

Somehow the concept of any part of a proper waterproof marine bluetooth device costing a tenner eludes me
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Old 31 January 2014, 14:49   #189
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supposing every new engine came with a blue tooth (type) radio, ie short range
The 10,000 existing?

supposing every new engine came with a toggle that the short range radio could detect at , say 10m
Thats twice the length of my boat. Only needs to be 1m or less.

supposing if the engine radio lost contact with the toggle
suppose that killed the engine
water and delicate electronics and your life?

suppose the toggles cost 10 so all passengers could have one.
So which one controls the cut off? the one on the passenger in the bow or
the one in the stern or the one driving?


suppose this could be bypassed for 30 mnutes by flicking a switch on the engine
people would keep using it especially for those " im just pottering round in the harbour"

suppose the whole lot cost 30
This level of tech, in a marine market?!

why would this be bad
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Old 31 January 2014, 14:50   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j.i.wilson View Post
supposing every new engine came with a blue tooth (type) radio, ie short range

supposing every new engine came with a toggle that the short range radio could detect at , say 10m

supposing if the engine radio lost contact with the toggle

suppose that killed the engine

suppose the toggles cost 10 so all passengers could have one.

suppose this could be bypassed for 30 mnutes by flicking a switch on the engine

suppose the whole lot cost 30

why would this be bad?
Suppose the same numpty that doesn't use his killcord put all those expensive bluetooth toggles in a bag in the console, you're missing the point. All you've done is replace one flawed system with another (flawed, complex, expensive) one, which has been my point all along.
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