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Old 31 March 2011, 08:08   #81
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Well posted.
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Old 31 March 2011, 11:52   #82
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To the guy that implied that three sailors being run down by a ferry is somehow their fault.

Was not impling that it was there fault just that there are two sides to every story. Everyone is required to maintain a proper lookout including sailboats.

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They were sailing a small boat at probably 5 knots and were restricted in their ability to manouvre as they were sailing ,hence they cannot sail directly to windward.
The ferry was doing 15 to 20 knots and I believe altered course toward them being unaware of their presence.
This is like trying to row away from a rib ,perhaps you would like to try it and I'll drive the rib?
And I suppose you also think that because they were sailing and not driving a rib that their lives somehow matter less?

And i suppose that because i am on a rib forum then i know nothing of sail boats that is where you are very wrong.

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If the guy on watch had closed the curtains around the chart table and wore ordinary glasses then maybe he would have seen them.
And if he'd listened to the other crew that thought he'd seen something then maybe they could have been rescued.

That is for sure.

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Or if they'ed got someone with no qualifications at all but who could be trusted to look out of a window that would have been good too.
I may be over reacting but I was there.
We have no idea and will never know if the ouzo had a radar reflector or nav lights.

Only last week the lifeboat that i am involed in rescued a sail boat at night and when the skipper was asked if he could turn his nav lights on he said that a seagul had knocked it off so he had none !!! must of been a very clever seagul as it had even taken the wiring out.
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Old 31 March 2011, 13:26   #83
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Quote:
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We have no idea and will never know if the ouzo had a radar reflector or nav lights.
.
I think if you read the maib report you'll find that ouzo was fitted with both lights and radar reflector, and there was nothing in the behaviour or experience of the crew which would suggest they were not in use. I think the report also says one of the crew did spot a red light albeit too late.
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Old 31 March 2011, 15:59   #84
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I think if you read the maib report you'll find that ouzo was fitted with both lights and radar reflector, and there was nothing in the behaviour or experience of the crew which would suggest they were not in use. I think the report also says one of the crew did spot a red light albeit too late.
You are of course abserlutly right however an MCA inspector told me that a baked bean tin would have been as affective as there radar reflector ( the crew would not have known that of course)

We learn alot from accedents like this. Unfortunately it is too late for some. But we owe it to them to learn from then.
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Old 31 March 2011, 17:11   #85
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It will be interesting to find out whether the Incat was sounding her fog horn, which boat was the give way vessel, and whether the fishing vessel was also sounding her fog signal.
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Old 31 March 2011, 18:11   #86
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Simonud
You said;-

''three experienced sailors managed to hit a ferry that was lit up like a christmas tree''

Are you really that much of a shit?

Think about it.
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Old 31 March 2011, 20:12   #87
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Simonud
You said;-

''three experienced sailors managed to hit a ferry that was lit up like a christmas tree''

Are you really that much of a shit?

Think about it.
Well IF (and we will never know) the Ouzo did see it why no VHF call, apparently no signal lamp/torch, no anti-collision flares?

Also there is the fact that although they had a close quarters encounter it was brought to the OOW's trial that another ship course would have also made them (and not the POB) liable to be the vessel that hit the Ouzo.

Capt. Hubble was also cleared remember...

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Old 01 April 2011, 04:39   #88
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This is a quote from another forum

"I was aboard condor Vitesse at the time of collision. They were travelling at normal cruising speed and stopped sounding the fog horn soon after leaving St malo. The sea was very calm. (Flat). Visibility was extremely poor 30-40m.
Condor crew seemed disorganised and seemed to be slow to act on passenger sightings. They posted no lookouts on outer decks or lower pods, choosing to obserb only from bridge. Passengers could hear cries for help, and saw fishermen waving on debris but Condor crew didn't seem to see them and repeatedly motored past. Condor crew failed to ready rescue boats. The rescue boats remained untouched until the vessel had been located, it took a furtehr 10 minutes to ready first boat. The second boat remained untouched until first boat had already recovered two crewmembers. I am no expert but I was say that the rescue was poorly executed by condor, although I suspect this was due to their procedures. If so they looking at, beacuse I have no doubt that the timing was an issue. There were also a large number of trainee crew memebers on board who were not on active duty. These people were not deployed to help in any way. I believe there may have also been additional deck crew who were accompanying these trainees, although this is only my assumption, having seen unfamiliar faces. I confess I was in the toilet when the impact occurred, but a friend described how immediately after the collision he looked at the way to see what appeared to be a fishing boat cut in two and sinking. I myself saw the two rescued fishermen standing on the wreckage waving through the fog.. Very haunting ! The vessel in question also had radar ! What could have possibly gone wrong? I know the Condor captain and he is a very experience fast ferry captain who has sailed this route for many years. I would have said he was an excellent captain... so what went wrong? "

http://www.simsl.com/Posters/COLREGSRule6SafeSpeed.pdf


http://www.channelonline.tv/channelo....asp?ID=493614

"C.I. news reports 37 knots in visibility down to 30m. If true, crazy. Incident was in French waters, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a manslaughter charge. "
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Old 01 April 2011, 04:43   #89
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Pride of Bilbao/Ouzo

All fair comments.
Just that the implication that they sailed into the ferry wound me up a bit as having spent a lot of time thinking about what happened and being aware of the conditions that night.
Knowing the fear when the ship that you think you are staying out of the way of suddenly alters course towards you in the dark and the rain when you can only do five knots.
The moment when you see the two white lights directly in line and both the port and starboard lights........
Happened to me at the mouth of the Cleddau (Milford Haven) when I hadn't been sailing long. Bloody great oil tanker doing about 20 knots.
So being nearby when that particular collision happened I'm probably over reacting!
Best forgotten now.
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Old 01 April 2011, 04:51   #90
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Quote:
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Simonud
You said;-

''three experienced sailors managed to hit a ferry that was lit up like a christmas tree''

Are you really that much of a shit?

Think about it.
I did and I will stand by what I said. It is my opinion.

No wreckage has ever been found and there is a chance that the Ouzo was possibly hit by a tanker which would of been much harder to see.

Everything I say on this forum I am prepared to say to people's face please extend the same curtsey. There is never a need for bad language we don't know who else reads the post we put up!!
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