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Old 01 April 2011, 13:35   #101
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previous incident with a ferry report. Apologies if someone has already posted it. The comment at the bottom is quiet interesting.

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Old 01 April 2011, 14:45   #102
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Safe Speed is not defined, should it be ?? I think probably not when you look at the rules above and the requirements laid down for assessing 'safe speed'.

Within the rules it is clear to see they are outdated and need reviewing for modern vessel use. not more than 2 min intervals for power driven vessels.
The COLREGS don't say it in as many words, but I want to sound my fog horn as frequently as my speed and the vis dictate. If I can see yay-far and am going to cover that distance in less than 2 mins I need to change something.
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Old 01 April 2011, 15:12   #103
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Some more info in today, press have spoken to survivors. They were pulling a string of pots at the time, doing about 4 kts as they hauled.
The Vitesse suddenly loomed out of the fog, hit them in the bow.
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Old 01 April 2011, 16:29   #104
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Pride of Bilbao/Ouzo

I'm sure that I read somewhere that the Ouzo had been found and raised??
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Old 01 April 2011, 16:33   #105
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Quote:
Safe speed
Well quite simply I suppose it can't have been if it ended up killing someone.
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Old 02 April 2011, 19:08   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Channel Ribs View Post
The COLREGS don't say it in as many words, but I want to sound my fog horn as frequently as my speed and the vis dictate. If I can see yay-far and am going to cover that distance in less than 2 mins I need to change something.
But you can. The rules say not greater than 2 mins. You are allowed to sound your horn more frequently. I don't think the rules need changing, they just need reading properly. (not suggesting anyone on here is incompetent). I was told when I was at sea that the rules are written in such a way that they mean the same in every language they are translated into. Apparently, this is not an easy thing to do.

I also remember days of dense fog, when one couldn't see the foc's'le from the bridge. Watchkeeping outside on the bridge wings, lookouts right for'ard, the old man or the mate with his head glued to the radar, fog signal on auto every two minutes. Engine ready to manoeuvre and at half ahead (circa 10 knts). If we heard another fog signal we answered immediately. If it appeared to be forward of the beam we slowed down further. As the other vessel got nearer the frequency of whistle blasts increased and our speed was slowed.

I can remember the beautiful lilac colour of a Union Castle steamer materialise out of the greyness as I pulled the engine telegraph to full astern. He must have done the same, for we stopped less than a cable apart. Our VHF, the size of a two drawer filing cabinet, finally warmed up and we called - but no response.

Both ships backed off slightly, each turned to starboard and I watched as the other ship vanished into the greyness. I learned a lot on that watch.

That was in the western approaches when I was a cadet, learning my craft and art by soaking up the experience of sea time. In four years, six months college time was all that was thought necessary to consolidate that experience of a very practical, hands on occupation. I understand now that three years is spent in college and only one year spent at sea. That lack of experience, it seems, is showing these days.

Shipping companies are run by accountants, ships by mariners. No accountant would have ever dared to tell the masters of ships I sailed in to hurry up and to hell with the fog. The master would not be fired because any replacement would do the same.

Now it seems, learning seamanship is an academic exercise, punctuated by the odd cruise. No wonder they can't tell the accountants to sod off.

Lubricated rant over - back to retirement.
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Old 03 April 2011, 02:27   #107
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But you can. The rules say not greater than 2 mins. You are allowed to sound your horn more frequently. I don't think the rules need changing, they just need reading properly.
Yes, what I was trying to say... If my speed and visibility are not compatible with the fog signal interval then I either need to change my speed or the interval, or most likely both.
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Old 03 April 2011, 04:23   #108
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Shipping companies are run by accountants, ships by mariners. No accountant would have ever dared to tell the masters of ships I sailed in to hurry up and to hell with the fog. The master would not be fired because any replacement would do the same.
Fortunately there are still a few small companies that have Masters as the directors.

I have had the pleasure of working for one such for sometime where I consider the 'boss' to be a friend also. I guess he trusts my decision making skills enough to command his vessel!

He has also (along with his business partner) stood by me over a safety issue involving the charterer and supported me and the crew 110% in the matter.

Indeed the more I think about a recent change of direction the more I think I made a mistake and should have carried on working freelance for him...

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Old 03 April 2011, 14:07   #109
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A lot of people are quoting portions Colregs. Unfortunately by doing this they are missing out information. the colregs should be taken as a complete document and not just bits and pieces. THe definitions and specifications of a fog horn cover the distance over which the horn should be heard. and this is where the timings come from. many small vessels rely on a manually operated horn often a small aerosol type which is unlikely to be heard over the perscribed distance.
to me, The col regs are a very well written document ehich should alway followed by all what ever type of vessel large or small, and if they are there should never be a collision. End of story!!!!
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Old 03 April 2011, 15:13   #110
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Range of signal

Well for the condor the minimum range is 1.5 miles for larger vessels (>200m) 2 miles, these ranges are for the direction of maximum intensity. At 36 knots the vessel sounds it horn and waits 2 minutes to sound the horn again as it is on an automatic setting.
In this time the vessel will have travelled 1.2 miles.

Hypothetically then, if the signal was made at a range of 1.7 miles from you in your rib and you did not hear it, you may then hear the next signal at a range of 0.5 miles this now gives you about 60 seconds to act on hearing the fog signal for possibly the first time.

Carriage of AIS is mandatory for certain vessels yet the colregs do not include the use of AIS or VHF for collision avoidance. Reading many MAIB reports and it becomes clear that these tools are frequently used by many seafarers for this exact purpose??
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