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Old 26 January 2016, 07:56   #1
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Country: Belgium
Town: brussels
Boat name: raider one
Make: raider
Length: 5m +
Engine: outboard 135 hp Hond
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1
good advice is half work

Hello everyone, Y use my current 18 ft fibreglass boat(135hp) to get to the good fishing spot before the Belgian coast. These spots are sometimes 60 km far, so y want to switch to a rib for weight, speed, economy and comfort so y can spend more time fishing and save my back. Also my boat is on trailer and y have to drive 150 km from Brussels to Nieuwpoort, so towing weight must be stay below 1000kg.
The rib's for sale in Belgium are expensive and not equipped for fishing.
I am thinking (+budget ) to build my rib according to my wishes, these are basic ,light, save and fast.

Here are my questions :
- is this a crazy idea ?
- does anyone as experience in building and can give me some good advice ?
- where to buy in UK a bare 20-24 ft CE hull en tubes how is light, fast, durable,comfortable at high speeds en sea, high free board and can be equipped with twin outboard engines?

sorry for my bad english
thanks for your answers
greetings
raider one
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Old 26 January 2016, 11:39   #2
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Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: Wildheart
Make: Humber/Delta Seasafe
Length: 5m +
Engine: Merc 60 Clamshell
MMSI: 235068449
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,610
Raider,

Welcome to Ribnet!

I think you have an interesting set of "constraints" here - the big one I can see causing the most problems is your towing weight. at 1000Kg you are going to need brakes - regardless of what you are towing it with- and so your trailer is likely to clock in at 250Kg or so - Leaving you with approx. 750 KG of boat.

Now, you could get round this by towing on empty fual tanks - but that does cary a small risk that if you don't burn all your fuel on the day out you might be overweight going home, so let's assme a full tank. You say the good fishing is 60Km away - so call it 120 Km as a round trip, which is approx 65 Nautical miles, which in turn gives approx 65 L (minimum) of fuel (based on a couple of "how much does your boat drink?" threads in the past on here) so if we round it to 70L and use 0.77Kg / L that gives you another (approx) 55Kg to remove from the boat weight to keep it "tow legal".


So you are looking for a hull + engine combo of 1000-250-55Kg = 695Kg This is where it gets into matrix calcs territory - the bigger the hull, the more HP you are likely to want to push it. BUT, as you may know, one lump of engine hardware in the outboard world is usually turned to 2 or 3 different horsepowers..... this means with careful engine choice, you could make a big weight reduction by moving to a different brand of engine... Also your love of & knowledge of engines might add a constraint - if you don't mind tinkering with / rebuilding an engine before you fit it an old 2- stroke might solve some weight issues- my 60 Clocks in at 84Kg. if you buy an early 4- stroke I have seen similar HPs clock in at upwards of 140KG...... Honda & Yam now do super light 4- strokes.... but do you have budget for new?

And Twins - if you do a search on here you might think twins are the devil's kids - BUT there are a lot of things that may be true when you have a 7M boat and are debating between twin 150s and a single 300 which are just nonsense down at the smaller end of the scale where you are looking at 2x 50s intead of a 100 (or at a roughly 700Kg boat - more like twin 40s instead of an 80 or 90...... Do a search on here for "twins" -I have written a high level technical Mythbuster on two or three of these threads. Even put wieight data on one of them.... Also smaller engines tend to be self sustaining when started, and have pull start anyway, so all the stuff about twin batteries goes out the window..... Twin fuel tanks is sensible - I have 4 (portable) tanks on my boat, even tho' I only have one main engine....


So, don't let this put you off. I managed to fit a 5m rib into a 5.7m long garage on a braked trailer, and keep the entire tow rig to under 750 KG. (I decided to "future proof" it in case my next car couldn't tow 750 Unbraked)

Have a wait for some more answers - but the one thing I would say is do your research - there are a few urban myths out there which some will tell you are fact.

As a going in thought the Searider SR5.4might be good for fishing (or SR4.7 to keep the weight down - IF you can find one!). They will take twins, and the ballast water thing in theory should make stopping to fish a bit easier (more stable and donlt drift so much when stopped).

Going even lighter it might be a bit small for you but I have seen an SR4 with twin 25s.... (and it will plane on a single 25 as I had a single 25 on mine!)

Anyhow, do some searches on here, also have a look at Boatinfo - boat brochures and manuals for boats and marine engines! - plenty of old engine brochures on there to get weights etc so have a read & search, then ask back.

You have some tight constraints there, which might actually make the decision easier.....

No worries about your english - there are some locals over here can't speak it as well as you!
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Old 26 January 2016, 14:25   #3
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Country: UK - England
Length: 3m +
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Are you looking new or 2nd hand? If the 4.7 was of interest they are rare as Hen's teeth but Whisper has one for sale at the moment (although its engined) (Custom Rigid Inflatable Boats RIBs For Sale and Repairs). In-fact if you are looking for a brand new SR it looks like he can sort one of them for you too...

Your English is fine - you may struggle to understand the nonsense people speak on here - so do most of us! Just to point out though you use Y when you meant I. (I is roughly equivalent of Je in French)

As weight is an issue - aluminium rather than GRP hull might be worth a look? So the Highfield Range or the X-Pro Range (although I think they were GRP after 4.2m) and they seem to have gone quiet since SeaSwift moved over to Highfields.
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Old 27 January 2016, 05:53   #4
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Country: Poland
Town: WARSAW
Boat name: T1
Make: HIGHFIELD OM540DL
Length: 5m +
Engine: EVINRUDE 115 HO
MMSI: 261026640
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider one View Post
so towing weight must be stay below 1000kg.
The rib's for sale in Belgium are expensive and not equipped for fishing.
I am thinking (+budget ) to build my rib according to my wishes, these are basic ,light, save and fast.

Here are my questions :
- is this a crazy idea ?
- does anyone as experience in building and can give me some good advice ?
- where to buy in UK a bare 20-24 ft CE hull en tubes how is light, fast, durable,comfortable at high speeds en sea, high free board and can be equipped with twin outboard engines?
Sorry for my English also ...
My answer is NOT POSSIBLE !!!

I have HIGHFIELD OM540 RIB with single EVINRUDE 115 HO outboard.
Theoretically lightest possible ALU RIB.
The real weight boat on trailer (2 AKU, half of the tank, anchors, a little equipment) is 1200 kg.

And you are looking for 20 ft hull so RIB size be around 7m (with tubes) plus twin engines.

Below mentioned company make carbon fiber RIB-s (yacht tenders)
Xtenders - Tenders

This one mentioned above is stated 700 kg (not idea if it is with engine or not). If without real weight be 700 + 200 (engine) + trailer (300) => 1200 kg which is really good results for RIB greater than 6m.

You can contact them, they are from Holland


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You have HIGHFIELD dealer in Belgium also.
So you can try and ask for OM500DL with HONDA BF80
Maybe this set be around 1100 kg

http://www.highfieldboats.com/dealers-locator/
In UK look for Sea Swift or HIGHFIELD UK. Sometimes thay have good prices for after "boat show" boats
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Old 27 January 2016, 07:34   #5
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Country: UK - England
Town: Wootton Bassett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinyShoe View Post
Are you looking new or 2nd hand? If the 4.7 was of interest they are rare as Hen's teeth but Whisper has one for sale at the moment (although its engined) (Custom Rigid Inflatable Boats RIBs For Sale and Repairs). In-fact if you are looking for a brand new SR it looks like he can sort one of them for you too...

Your English is fine - you may struggle to understand the nonsense people speak on here - so do most of us! Just to point out though you use Y when you meant I. (I is roughly equivalent of Je in French)

As weight is an issue - aluminium rather than GRP hull might be worth a look? So the Highfield Range or the X-Pro Range (although I think they were GRP after 4.2m) and they seem to have gone quiet since SeaSwift moved over to Highfields.

Hi, yes I have three SR4.7's in different colours, two are not are not fitted with engines as yet.

I can also supply a brand new one...

Click image for larger version

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I also do new trailers too now so it's quite easy to sort you one out really.


Zodiac Milpro Dealer www.customrib.co.uk
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Old 27 January 2016, 08:44   #6
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Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: Wildheart
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Engine: Merc 60 Clamshell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatFromPoland View Post
And you are looking for 20 ft hull so RIB size be around 7m (with tubes) plus twin engines.
Mat,

I just read his current boat was that length. But I agree, a 7m boat & tow weight unsder 1T is not going to happen..... Unless you use Twin 8HP engines...but I don't think that's what he needs!!


Raider,

I guess the question has to be why 1000Kg? - Is it your tow vehicle? I think we are on the same set of rules for towing over here- and 1000Kg is not one that seems driving licence related to me. (no trailer test =750kg, test = >1000Kg!)

It's also just occured to me - when you say "tow weight 1000Kg", do you mean the whole thing (i.e boat + trailer), or just the boat (i.e no trailer - possibly because you are wanting to use your curent boat's trailer because the person that bought it from you didn't need a trailer and you now have a trailer rated to carry a 1000kg boat?)



Let's put some numbers on paper
As you know, I (personally) reckon a Searider would be a good one to start looking at-


Boat SR5.4 SR6.3
Hull weight 320 680
Engines 2x40Hp 2X70 Hp (from web)


Engines (not done a full market survey, but picked Yam as they seem popular)
Merc Clamshell 1969-1991 (Power trim version, premix) 84Kg
New Yammy 4- stroke "Midrange" F70- 115KG F40-101Kg (I assume you'd want Power trim!)

So,
Boat SR5.4 / Old Merc SR5.4 New Yam SR6.3 / New yam
Hull weight 320 320 680
Engines weight 2x84 2X101 2x115
TOTAL WEIGHT 488 522 910

So, you could buy a 5.4 Searider, hang two shiny new Yam 40 PT engines o nthe back, and still have 480Kg to play with for trailer. fuel etc. If you got the 6.3m you are stuffed if the 1000Kg is the whole tow, but if you are looking at 1000Kg rib for your current trailer.......

Problem you have might be if you mean "1000Kg including trailer"..... A quick spin through indespension's website, and a and a look at the roller trailers one suitable for a 5.4 clocks in at 1300 Kg. One for the 6.3 is 1600Kg.


So let's assume you mean "including trailer" and go down a size of rib

an SR4.7 with max 60 Hp by my reckoning clocks in at 250Kg + 2x 101Kg (looks like same lump as the 40) = 452Kg - not a spectacular saving in weight over the 5.4, BUT if you go for twin 'rude 30s the engine weight for a power trim electric start 9E30DPGL is only 82 KG so your all up weght drops to 414Kg.... then if you can live with manual rope start and no PT the weight drops to 63Kg / engine.....

(if you look at the 'Rude 40 for the SR5.4 it's lardy compared to the yam - I guess the 'rude 30 is the top HP of that group).....



Anyhow, another lunch time's worth of thoughts & another huge post.
If you could clarify the towing weight the impssible might not be so impossible to achieve!
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Old 27 January 2016, 12:46   #7
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Country: Poland
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Boat name: T1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9D280 View Post
Raider,

I guess the question has to be why 1000Kg? - Is it your tow vehicle? I think we are on the same set of rules for towing over here- and 1000Kg is not one that seems driving licence related to me. (no trailer test =750kg, test = >1000Kg!)
In some countries there are rules like these:
750 GVW trailer -> normal driving licence
if TOTAL (sum of) car GVW and trailer GWV is <= 3500 kg => still normal licence

So maybe his car has GVW (Gross Vechicle Weight) about 2500 so he can not exceed 3500 of total so GVW of trailer can be MAX 1000 kg

If that the case I'm not sure if even Highfield OM500DL + HONDA BF80 + brenderup basic 1000 will fulfill these requirements. (300 kg trailer + HONDA and riging 200 + 100 (acu, jockey's console, tank) so 400 for hull is really challenge - real weight.

I know what am I talking I visited company who certified trailers and they measured my set (boat on trailer). From simple mathematics I did expect 900 kg total. But my total was 1150 kg (without spare battery which was installed on the end). Police in Poland can check your real weight and penalty is serious. You can not continue travel plus pay some bills ...

Now I have my boat on Brenderup BASIC 1300 and with full of petrol I'm still below GVW of trailer but I had to pass B96 certification test (it allows me to tow set till 4250 kg)
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Old 27 January 2016, 15:51   #8
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Boat name: Wildheart
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Engine: Merc 60 Clamshell
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Train weight..... of course!

So, maybe what Raider needs to do is swap his Landcruiser for a Mondeo!
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