Flares - Day and Night or Laser Flares?

[Jimbo]

Father dearest has requested a Day and Night flare for Christmas this year. Whilst I am quite happy to entertain the possibility of him being lost overboard and requiring the use of such a device, I thought I'd do a bit of research first (unusual!), and came across these:

http://rescue-flares.co.uk/

What are people's thoughts on either? Does anyone have any experience of the laser flares?

[chewy]

I think it was PBO who did a review on them and whilst the laser ones aren't recognised as flares they faired alot better than conventional pyros.

[Polwart]

Jimbo, You might want to PM SPR he is the same SPR behind that site, but as he's not a trade member I know he doesn't want to promote his stuff publicly on here!

You might also want to look at "odeo flare" (http://www.odeoflare.co.uk/) which I think (having used neither in real life) is possibly a better product (sorry Scott) although I do think it is overpriced.

[alystra]

Interesting stuff. I was thinking seiously of not replacing most of my out of date pyrotechnic flares for next season after considering the debates by the RYA etc. I have two VHF's aboard and several LED torches.

After the announcement that there will be effectively no useful Coastguard coverage here in the west coast, let alone anywhere else, I'm reconsidering. Lots and lots of parachute flares are the answer, because I know from experience (Ops room, defunct Oban MRSC) that even in a sparsely occupied area, people see them and report. (Though to whom??)

The laser thingy might be bright, but you cannot see a light 30 miles away if it's only six feet above sea level. I think one will need more rockets.

Hopefully the weather broadcasts will continue, but I suspect things like TR's will be discouraged. Back to the 1970's - without the visual lookouts! Wouldn't be surprised if the three call centres they're wanting to reduce to were contacted out to Mumbai within ten years.

So, yeah. As many bright lights, rockets and smoke as you can afford.

[SPR]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Jimbo, You might want to PM SPR he is the same SPR behind that site, but as he's not a trade member I know he doesn't want to promote his stuff publicly on here!
.

Thanks Neil:

As you said thats one of my websites:

Jimbo it depends, what other safety kit you carry on your person, Laser Flares are good replacement for Pinpoint reds, to guide a rescuer to your position after alerting by other means, VHF or PLB.

It can be used to locate buoys or anything that has retro-reflective tape on it, ie. Life Jackets in a MOB.

Quick Specs:

Range at night 20+ miles....I think you find the other one mention is 3.5 miles.

Tested by UK Governmental Labs and been granted Laser Safety Certificate.

As all Class 3R or Class 3A lasers are not blink safe, the following was advised,

Eye Safe: 2.5 Metres
Binocular Safe: 18 metres 10 x 20
44 metres 10 x120

(not an issue for Greatland Laser Flares since they do not rotate.

Been in production for over 10 Years, used by USA Government, and have been informally tested by UK Coastguard, Police and RNLI.

They are Pilot safe.

The Official MCA trails i believe are on hold due to funding cuts!

As Neil (Polwart) and others know, I don't come on here to promote my business.

I will answer any questions, and if anybody buys anything from any of my websites ( i throw in a free carry case (£10) if they email me stating rib.net member)....

I don't like pyro's since during a Flare Demo, an orange Smoke exploded in my hand, lucky i was wearing Gloves, Jeans and good Jacket and was not injured. The RNLI stopped all Public Flare Demo's after this incident.

The other product you might look at is the rescue streamer, (yes i import these to) great alternative to orange smoke.


regards


Scott

[SPR]

Originally Posted by alystra

The laser thingy might be bright, but you cannot see a light 30 miles away if it's only six feet above sea level. I think one will need more rockets.

If its in Air Yes it can !

Another interesting fact:

Quote from: Marine Offshore Rescue Advisory Group: Good practice in offshore rescue.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/otopdf/2001/oto01040.pdf

Image Intensifiers. The most appropriate form of image intensifier is that used in Night
Vision Goggles (NVG). These are already widely used in the armed forces and, if used by
those searching for survivors at sea, would, according to the HSE report, significantly
increase their chances of detecting and locating survivors at night. They could also provide
rescuers with greater freedom of action when actually rescuing survivors.

A limitation of NVG is that bright lights such as flares or searchlights can temporarily blind the equipment. However careful operation can reduce the risk of this happening and, if it does, the search can still be continued with the naked eye until the NVG regain efficiency.

It is expected that the use of NVG would significantly enhance the chances of detecting survivors at night, particularly if they are wearing strobe lights or reflective tape (with the search vessel using a searchlight screened from the NVG).

So carrying traditional flares or shining bright torches will affect your rescuers helicopter if they have night vision (NVG).

Rescue Laser Flares do not affect the ability of your rescuers finding you.

More Rockets? I thing at £20 a pop, a DSC Radio, VHF, PLB , EPwould be the answer.


An independent review: http://www.equipped.org/rescuelaser.htm

regards

Scott

[Starovich]

I would think that if both parties are 6ft above sea level 30 miles would be a stretch with the curvature of the earth (los etc).
How far away is the horizon

Nothing to do with the visibity of the product, which would be visible from a helicopter a lot further away.

[Jimbo]

Useful chat guys, thanks.

It's worth me pointing out at this stage, before this thread diversifies too far, that the idea behind getting the old boy a flare was to complement the boat's existing safety gear (which on 99.9% of boats he uses includes a reasonable flare pack); and give him the opportunity to be seen as an individual, should he go overboard etc.

For that reason I'm not really looking at arming him with an EPIRB that would alert an MRCC, or a Parachute Flare which would alert someone miles away; rather a short range device that gets the boat he's legged it from, or one closer, to his position.

I guess the other point to consider is that a traditional (and cheaper) Day and Night flare includes a Red element and an Orange Smoke, whereas a Laser Flare would (correct me if I'm wrong?) only be appropriate for night time use?

[chewy]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I guess the other point to consider is that a traditional (and cheaper) Day and Night flare includes a Red element and an Orange Smoke, whereas a Laser Flare would (correct me if I'm wrong?) only be appropriate for night time use?

Depends if you fill it with water.....

[SPR]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I guess the other point to consider is that a traditional (and cheaper) Day and Night flare includes a Red element and an Orange Smoke, whereas a Laser Flare would (correct me if I'm wrong?) only be appropriate for night time use?

red laser is still visible in daylight although at shorter distance...a day night flare lasts around 30 seconds each end...

s.