Flares are NOT Fireworks - Page 2

John Kennett · 05 November 2014, 19:21

I thought we'd done this one to death a few months ago. Setting of a flare is, in itself, no more against the law than waving your arms up and down.

Setting off a flare irresponsibly may mean you are committing an offence under a number of pieces of legislation, but if you try hard enough you can break the law with all sorts of different bits of hardware.

Whilst I can't think of any situation where letting off a parachute flare would be OK except in an emergency, I don't have any problem with hand flares and have used or supervised the use of a couple of hundred without any problems.

m chappelow · 05 November 2014, 19:23

I live 70 miles from the coast however i live within a few miles of a regional airport setting anything off including Kites above a certain height 150mtrs within 10 miles of an airport is illegal also we have lots of moorland within a few miles including Mountain rescue teams who also use distress flares ,
Aside the legal aspect biggest problem with Parachute Rocket flares is they can land still burning on top of buildings or roofs then roll into plastic gutters .
Another down side of using some of the older para flares with cotton or calico parachutes unlike the later versions is with time they often stay rolled up in a ball & dont open making the burning flare come down like a scud missile then spend the next 40 seconds burning in the ground.

Remember a neighbour setting off some out of date float smokes one very damp foggy night ,, next morning everything in the village down wind was covered in Orange sticky dye including all the lawns ,trees, bushes , cars as well as most of the local cats & dogs .
Another down side is what happens if you fire a dud or get a missfire ,how do you dispose of that safely .
Just wondering the legal aspect of firing off a rocket line ,As most still use the same rocket as a para flare but without the flare & para part ?

ShinyShoe · 05 November 2014, 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Classic scaremongering case, throw enough veiled, vague threats & people actually start to believe that it's actually illegal. It's all about intent. If the poster said "under the misuse of flares act 2014, it is an offence to....." then it would have had more credibility, but seeing as there isn't a "misuse of flares act" they have gone for the blunderbuss approach, which smacks of desperation. We come back to the usual question of "How big is the actual problem?"

So I'd guess a fair few time expired flares will magically go missing tonight.

Not suggesting for 1minute that many/any will result in an emergency response.

Now assume you were out on your boat, lost VHF comms, phone, PLB etc and are left with firing a burning ball of flame slung below a parachute would you want that to be tonight or a similar day at the end of Feb? Somehow I suspect if it was the end if Feb your chances of being rescued go from slim to slightly less slim.

I bet there will be some calls today to HMCG even if they don't result in a response. When Chinese Lanterns first became trendy the number if 'I think I saw a flare calls' " rocketed " (pun intended...)

Pikey Dave · 05 November 2014, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Now assume you were out on your boat, lost VHF comms, phone, PLB etc and are left with firing a burning ball of flame slung below a parachute would you want that to be tonight or a similar day at the end of Feb? Somehow I suspect if it was the end if Feb your chances of being rescued go from slim to slightly less slim.

Sorry, but you've lost me completely there

gtflash · 05 November 2014, 19:46

Flares are surprisingly difficult to get rid of. Even the local rnli centre who take them,is 25 miles away and they only take them on every 15th Tuesday, f there is a full moon and your stood on both hands upside down.

I have about 15 unwanted flares. At least on bonfire night there is a lot of other stuff in the Sky to distract from a hand held flare in a inland garden.

ShinyShoe · 05 November 2014, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Sorry, but you've lost me completely there

So tonight a member of public sees a flare. They recognise it as a flare. Do they dial 999 or do they assume its the night all the sailors use up their time expired pyros.

Even if they make the call how many pyros do you carry. By the time a CG rescue team arrive have they all gone. With nothing obvious do they assume its a sailor using up their time expired pyros? Presumably they join the dots of location, vessels reported overdue, fireworks displays etc...

It needs to not be expected to be a time expired being disposed of. That's the purpose of the poster...

willk · 05 November 2014, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

It needs to not be expected to be a time expired being disposed of. That's the purpose of the poster...

In which case, maybe the CG would be better setting up a friendly TEP disposal network rather than p1$$ing about with warning posters! The current arrangement is silly. Boaters are either encouraged or forced to carry them and then they become "the old man of the sea" and you can't get rid of them.

John Kennett · 05 November 2014, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by m chappelow

setting anything off including Kites above a certain height 150mtrs within 10 miles of an airport is illegal

No it isn't. It may require permission from the CAA though.

m chappelow · 05 November 2014, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kennett

No it isn't. It may require permission from the CAA though.

Thanks John for clearing that one up ,
I know you need CAA permission for releasing a lot of helium balloons in one go at say a charity event but single balloons can be set off individually .

Poly · 05 November 2014, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

So tonight a member of public sees a flare. They recognise it as a flare. Do they dial 999 or do they assume its the night all the sailors use up their time expired pyros.

Even if they make the call how many pyros do you carry. By the time a CG rescue team arrive have they all gone. With nothing obvious do they assume its a sailor using up their time expired pyros? Presumably they join the dots of location, vessels reported overdue, fireworks displays etc...

It needs to not be expected to be a time expired being disposed of. That's the purpose of the poster...

If the cg are in any doubt they will investigate / search. Only a dick would needlessly set a para off at sea / the coast.

ShinyShoe · 05 November 2014, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

In which case, maybe the CG would be better setting up a friendly TEP disposal network rather than p1$$ing about with warning posters! The current arrangement is silly. Boaters are either encouraged or forced to carry them and then they become "the old man of the sea" and you can't get rid of them.

I ain't disagreeing with you.

Something to be said for an equivalent of WEEE regulations. But the cost of flares would presumably rise.

ShinyShoe · 05 November 2014, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poly

If the cg are in any doubt they will investigate / search. Only a dick would needlessly set a para off at sea / the coast.

The country is full of dicks

Pikey Dave · 06 November 2014, 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

The country is full of dicks

Aye! tha reight

HughN · 06 November 2014, 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtflash

Flares are surprisingly difficult to get rid of. Even the local rnli centre who take them,is 25 miles away and they only take them on every 15th Tuesday, f there is a full moon and your stood on both hands upside down.

I have about 15 unwanted flares. At least on bonfire night there is a lot of other stuff in the Sky to distract from a hand held flare in a inland garden.

Sorry, but I disagree entirely. I telephoned Solent Coastguard and made an appointment, turned up at the agreed time, handed over the flares and filled in a form before going home. All very friendly, pain-free and quick.

Forty minutes each way but I knew they had been disposed off completely legally and safely: I didn't have to worry about having time expired flares knocking around or whether I could get away with firing them on 5th November.

You may recall the supporter at a (Southampton?) football match killed by a rocket flare fired across the ground.

Poly · 06 November 2014, 07:01

But the world does not revolve around the solent.

HughN · 06 November 2014, 07:19

No. But any(?) coastguard station will accept them. Even ribnetters who live in the most landlocked part of the country will probably go near the sea at some point!

Many chandlers will accept flares on a like-for-like basis when buying new ones, e.g., buy two flares, hand in two flares.

My point is that it is not as easy as handing them in at the local cop shop* (" 'elf and safety, Sir") but it isn't impossible.

(Ignoring the risk of driving TEPs in a car on busy roads for a prolonged time)

* When I was a lad in the 1970s each cop-shop had a bomb shelter for all the WWII ordnance that schoolchildren used to dig up / find.

Maximus · 06 November 2014, 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poly

But the world does not revolve around the solent.

SO302766

......You tell THEM that!

Poly · 06 November 2014, 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by HughN

No. But any(?) coastguard station will accept them.

No, only a select range do. As an extreme example, if you are in oban you are looking at 4 hr drive to the nearest one, which isn't actually manned so presumably has rather restricted opening hours.

Dan Gurney · 06 November 2014, 09:48

2hrs each way for me (assuming Liverpool will take them).

I won't be buying pyro flares. I have two which I inherited with Clamchowder which will need disposing of next year and after that I will be using all other methods at my disposal. I already have a VHF, handheld, and a plb. I know there are instances where flares could be a good thing to have, but they're just too much hassle and too dangerous.

PeterM · 06 November 2014, 10:03

Ignoring the pedantry of Willk & Poly ...surely if 'we' ( a collective of boat users) choose to carry pyro flares we must also take responsibility or disposing of them safely ?

They are in effect a controlled explosion in a tube - so never to be used or handled without respect .

'We' (down south) are lucky to have places close to dispose of them. I've happily taken a small arsenal of TEP to the RNLI in Poole for ribnetters. The RNLI get charged to dispose of them but are still very helpful despite the fact that some of what they get given I felt nervous looking at let alone handling !

Its a re-occurring debate about their usefulness - the advent of DSC & PLB covering most situations a pyro flare could be needed.

If anyone has TEP and wants them correctly disposed of PM me - arrange to meet me or come on the Nacho run etc and I'll take them & swing by the RNLI for you ( which I can do in my lunch hour)

However unless you are down south this might be that helpful.