Flares are NOT Fireworks

[SPR]

At last the LAWS that make it illegal to set of flares not bring a distress ...


RYA First Aid - Scotland
Home - RYA Training Courses - Laser Flares

[willk]

Originally Posted by SPR

At last the LAWS that make it illegal to set of flares not bring a distress ...

Which one makes it illegal to set off a single smoke flare in a field (with the landowner's permission), assuming you don't cause injury or damage?

Once you rule out injury or damage then the options are very much reduced (and obviously it's ALWAYS an offence to cause injury or damage - even if you use an ice lolly to do so, never mind a flare)

The explosive substances act may refer to storage conditions/quantities? Applies to all flares, no matter how you use them.

Firearms Act - similar - maybe an exemption for cartridge/pin flares if used in correct environment - a little like the blade laws??

This is one for Poly - he likes Rules. And maybe JK - he seems VERY fond of flarey things that go pop

[Poly]

Did they just post their flip chart brain storming session or actually seek legal advice on that? Not least because several of those should have a nether bracket which says in England and Wales only! In Scotland at least there may be some more general reckless and nuisance offences. Now I'm not condoning letting off flares except in distress. But it would probably have been more helpful if they listed one offence which unambiguously made it an offence, or if they lobbied there ministers to make it one if this is really a problem.

[SPR]

Originally Posted by Poly

Did they just post their flip chart brain storming session or actually seek legal advice on that? Not least because several of those should have a nether bracket which says in England and Wales only! In Scotland at least there may be some more general reckless and nuisance offences. Now I'm not condoning letting off flares except in distress. But it would probably have been more helpful if they listed one offence which unambiguously made it an offence, or if they lobbied there ministers to make it one if this is really a problem.

yesterday's post ...


www.firstaidatsea.co.uk
www.SPRmarine.co.uk

[jyasaki]

Two sides to this: Granted, flares (and other signals such as smoke or dye) are intended to attract attention to a distress situation, and as such should be reserved for emergencies; but the flipside is that most people have never activated a distress signal (I know I haven't, despite having purchased quite a few over the years.)

So, the question is, how does a person familiarize themselves with the device operation if you can't try them out? Trust that you'll be able to figure it out when things go pear-shaped? Doesn't sound like the wisest course of action.

jky

[SPR]

Sea Survival Course - White flares are used at demos NOT RED...

S.


www.firstaidatsea.co.uk
www.SPRmarine.co.uk

[alexg]

i guess this seems to be more centred on the fact that a flare is an aluminium tube thats fired, not a little bit of cardboard and dowl, it burns for 45 secs not 3 at twice the temperature and can cause serious damage to people and things, you wouldn't want to hold on to a roman candle in your back garden, and i would surmise that you have no desire to be burnt by a handheld, taking the chance when its critical and its a burn or your life!! let alone calling out the volunteers and emergency services and generally wasting everyones time!!

[Poly]

Originally Posted by SPR

Attachment 100655

yesterday's post ...

Using them at SEA when it is not a distress situation IS a specific offence (under Merchant Shipping Act / Distress Signal Regs).

[paintman]

So no gassing the neighbours by disposing of old smokes tonight! (Damn!)

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by SPR

Sea Survival Course - White flares are used at demos NOT RED...

S.


www.firstaidatsea.co.uk
www.SPRmarine.co.uk

...but (& I'm only being devils advocate here) the original poster doesn't mention colour, so setting off a white flare would be no different to setting off a red flare if it caused injury, damage, terrorist alert, explosion etc, etc.

A flare is a flare

[CJL]

It is a challenging situation and it seems a rather disjointed approach. Most people understand that they shouldn't be set off unless in an emergency but they do make it so damn hard to get rid of them that the inevitable temptation is there to set them off as a disposal route.

The sooner the alternatives are explored, recognized and approved the better.

Chris

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by CJL

The sooner the alternatives are explored, recognized and approved the better.

Chris

agreed, cue Scott

[SPR]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

agreed, cue Scott

you mentioned my name!

www.rescue-flares.co.uk

although not Solas Approved ...but good start!


www.firstaidatsea.co.uk
www.SPRmarine.co.uk

[SPR]

disposal of Flares

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...139/mgn419.pdf

S.


www.firstaidatsea.co.uk
www.SPRmarine.co.uk

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by SPR

you mentioned my name!

www.rescue-flares.co.uk

although not Solas Approved ...but good start!


www.firstaidatsea.co.uk
www.SPRmarine.co.uk

Did you get anywhere with the TPAs ?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by CJL

It is a challenging situation and it seems a rather disjointed approach. Most people understand that they shouldn't be set off unless in an emergency but they do make it so damn hard to get rid of them that the inevitable temptation is there to set them off as a disposal route.

The sooner the alternatives are explored, recognized and approved the better.

Chris

But they might be better explaining why it's a bad idea than making up laws that nobody believes will be enforced.

[SPR]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Did you get anywhere with the TPAs ?

pmed you now and answered on previous thread too on Friday...


www.firstaidatsea.co.uk
www.SPRmarine.co.uk

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Poly

But they might be better explaining why it's a bad idea than making up laws that nobody believes will be enforced.

Classic scaremongering case, throw enough veiled, vague threats & people actually start to believe that it's actually illegal. It's all about intent. If the poster said "under the misuse of flares act 2014, it is an offence to....." then it would have had more credibility, but seeing as there isn't a "misuse of flares act" they have gone for the blunderbuss approach, which smacks of desperation. We come back to the usual question of "How big is the actual problem?"

[willk]

The big issue over here is not people letting off flares for entertainment - it's people phoning the CG for entertainment and making false reports of flare sightings. It's a big problem. My CG contact says they get a HUGE number of general crank calls too. The big issue with them is that they block the incoming phone lines to the Ops centers.

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by Poly

But they might be better explaining why it's a bad idea than making up laws that nobody believes will be enforced.

So I don't believe in MOST cases a legal case would be pursued as u think 'words of advice' would be offered first. Even the fishing boat I think had previously had words of advice if not mistaken.

BUT there could be cases where those laws would be applied without 'words of advice'. Some cases I can think of would include:
- taking them to a mass gathering where the presence of explosives might upset the anti-terror guys. (Suspect if you don't give them lip you might get some words of advice, but do wonder if those words are in the street or a police interview room)
- if you cause injury with them
- if you cause a fire.

So there has been two high profile incidents involving firework type incidents in the last few years that vaguely fall into this criteria where the consequence was probably hard to see as 'likely'. The rugby club fireworks where smoke drifted over the motorway and there was a pile up. That went to court and not guilty I think. The fire caused by a Chinese Lantern. Don't think the person who lit it was ever found. Think the public would have been sympathetic that it was accidental. But if someone caused that with a flare would they have been or would they have said this was predictable and they deserve what they get...