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Old 16 September 2013, 10:04   #101
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Originally Posted by miccheck1516 View Post
are there lots of reports of people getting hurt using pyros on boats? it's not something I hear alot of.....
thats the thing ...would you be happy if I stood on your boat and set one off as a demo? I guess not ...

Or one of your guests did ? I guess not ....

or you did ? - maybe not ....

The RISK of hurt/ injury is what is is being removed by a laser flare - which combined with DSC/ PLB devices and the ability to allow anyone to safely operate it - with no gloves/ safety glasses etc and no consideration of buring metal/ chemicals at very high temps dropping into a boat.

Combine the above with an 'event time' of hours compared to seconds for pyros and the fact that non commercial/ smaller boats aren't required by law to carry anything does , in my opinion mean they are way forward.

Lifeboats have been launched to sightings of red flares around here - as you say confirmed sightings - but if those boats setting off the flare had sent a DSC alert/ PLB activation I'd put a good bet on a lifeboat launch to that as well ( after suitable qualification) .

Its not a laser flare or nothing situation . Its laser flare + DSC / PLB .

If you're coded/ large - non of the above matters - you have to have pyros ( and by virtue someone who knows how to set them off etc) .
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Old 16 September 2013, 10:33   #102
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Well i've let off red hand flares before, and yeah, to be honest I wouldn't mind if you stood on my boat and let one off, you sound so scared of them I reckon you'd dunk it in the water and extinguish it before it even got going! lol

joking aside, ok, I realise there is a risk, and you want to eliminate all such risk, but can anyone actually quantify what the risk is?
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Old 16 September 2013, 11:34   #103
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Originally Posted by miccheck1516 View Post
Well i've let off red hand flares before, and yeah, to be honest I wouldn't mind if you stood on my boat and let one off, you sound so scared of them I reckon you'd dunk it in the water and extinguish it before it even got going! lol

joking aside, ok, I realise there is a risk, and you want to eliminate all such risk, but can anyone actually quantify what the risk is?
No - I cant quantify it - but I can guarantee you its more than with a laser flare.

I'm pretty sure a flare continues to burn under water......
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Old 16 September 2013, 12:03   #104
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Speaking as someone who was badly burned when a red parachute flare exploded in the tube as I set it off, I am very interested in the potential of laser "devices". My primary means of raising the alarm would be DSC/PLB/VHF. If that lot doesn't work, then the chances of someone seeing & responding to a 45sec flare are slim. I then see the laser as a means of giving the cavalry something to home in on. We need to look at it as a whole system which when combined is much more robust(IMO) than a firework, which is un-testable & transient. The whole bit about SOLAS approval is a red herring, what works, works. IMHO
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Old 16 September 2013, 12:47   #105
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but the point remains they are simply not GMDSS (or IMO, whatever) complaint...
So if I dial 999 on the way home tonight and tell the Coastie I can see a red flare, how does the coastie know that what I can see is an official GMSDD/SOLAS/IMO compliant flare and not something that either (i) I have mistaken for a flare OR (ii) was launched to indicate a distress but isn't officially stamped? simple he can't other than using common sense / intuition / experience. Sometimes that will work other time they will be launching a boat to investigate.

e.g. Torch flashing - actually on the shore line:
Kinghorn Lifeboat Station: The Interactive Rescue Chart

A chinese lantern and a camera flash in separate incidents!
Red alert for RNLI Kinghorn lifeboat

It appears even "expert observers" can mix up meteors / aircraft with flares:
http://www.seahouseslifeboat.org.uk/...ed%20Flare.pdf

Quote:
If you've ever called in a flare report you'll be aware the Coastguard will question the caller, in an effort to establish if what they have seen is indeed a red flare, if it can't be ascertained then it's much more likely that the coastguard will task a local coastguard rescue team rather than a lifeboat. Then someone can literally stand beside the first informant and see what they are trying to describe. Of course, in the mean time broadcast action might be taken to see if any vessel in the area have seen anything, and local military firing ranges may be called to check if they are active.
this appears to be an argument why the local CG volunteers should be aware of (and perhaps even supportive of) devices that give an effect long enough for them to see rather than the 60s or so a flare lasts.

Do you suggest that people should take a torch with them to sea? Do you think that if they were in distress that flashing a torch might be a good way to (i) Attract attention (ii) Assist the rescue services to locate your exact locations?
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Old 16 September 2013, 13:15   #106
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I am looking forward to seeing PeterM rescue laser , and subject to having a look at his one will no doubt be ordering my own from SPR. I am tempted to buy the larger red one that takes the AA batteries as I have a couple of sets of those rechargeable AA's that have a very long shelf life in my grab bag (for the handheld GPS and the backup VHF).

I wonder why the green one is much more expensive and is it worth the additional cost.
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Old 16 September 2013, 13:37   #107
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I am looking forward to seeing PeterM rescue laser , and subject to having a look at his one will no doubt be ordering my own from SPR. I am tempted to buy the larger red one that takes the AA batteries as I have a couple of sets of those rechargeable AA's that have a very long shelf life in my grab bag (for the handheld GPS and the backup VHF).

I wonder why the green one is much more expensive and is it worth the additional cost.
the green on is more expensive to manufacturer - is noticeable brighter because eye sees green better. it was £249 when I first sold it!

Most of military sales are Green...

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Old 17 September 2013, 11:17   #108
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Thanks to SPR marine who sent me my red laser flare today( well packed, sent next day etc ) .

First impressions are its a simple product in simple packaging not trying to pretend its something its not.

First thing that struck me was the size - it really is compact ! My feeling is that can be a good and bad thing - small enough to be on me all the time , but maybe too small to Ďfind easilyí if needed in the water.

Opened her up and SPR had put the battery in for me so no worries there - but simple enough to replace when needed - much like a torch battery replacement - so a plus there compared to having to drive to the RNLI to dispose of pyro flares - you could even recycle the battery in the Greatland product !

One end has a rubber cap - to make simple to identify the business end and protect the lens I guess. The other end a key ring/lanyard attachment - one to use for sure to ensure its not dropped over the side never to be seen again. ( note to self - get some decent lanyards for radio/ PLB / laser flare! ) Iím surprised Greatland donít include one - but then again you donít have lanyard on personal flares either)

Pouch Iíd suggest is a must for the smaller flare - to ensure its secure and on your person - however the unit is small enough to go in the small pockets on the Black shadow.

Instructions are clear - just simply twist the base and its on ! Its fool proof ..Iíd let anyone play with it, carry it and use it with no hesitation - you could tell kids its like a torch to wave towards rescuers and theyíd know how to use it ( unlike a pyro flare) .

The vertical line of light is clearly visible on walls etc so you can see which way it runs , but in use this could be harder , but I donít see as an issue as an up & down and a side to side wave would solve any orientation problems.

The odeo flare dummy I played with last week was pretty bulky ( to bulky to have your person) and seemed to have the 'flash towards rescuers' built in by way of flickerling the light - much like trying to imitate the flicker of a pyro flare.

Overall Iím very pleased, my last lot of pryo flares expire in December - at which point Iíll be getting another larger version .

I feel much happier haveing this on me/ the boat than pyros and I can safely give it to anyone to use knowing even if they turn it on by accident it wont cause injury.

If anyone wants to have a look / touch/ feel in the Bournemouth Poole area - just drop me a PM.
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Old 17 September 2013, 11:25   #109
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I use parachute cord for my radio & flares with carbiner.

A small 15mm keyring attrached to the icom hole and one to the flare works best.

I am trying to source these in bulk! to give away, the rings that is.

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Old 17 September 2013, 12:43   #110
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If anyone wants to have a look / touch/ feel in the Bournemouth Poole area - just drop me a PM.
Is the "Bournemouth Poole area" a euphamism with which I had not previously been acquainted?
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