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Old 19 September 2002, 11:49   #1
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Flankers new boat on the Rocks?

I agreed to a deal on an ex demo boat at the boat show last Friday, and had a fax and letter back confirming my order and the price. I sent a fax last Sunday asking a few more questions, ones that I had learnt from here such as a) Is the engine on the boat within the manufacturers recommendations b) What warranty is there with the Hull and Tubes c) Could I be guaranteed my deposit back if sent immediately, that after a test drive (date to be agreed) I found it unsuitable d) Confirmation of the values of separate parts of the boat and weights for Insurance and towing. e) Confirmation of how many hours the engine had done (they say it es ex demo and has done 3hrs) d) Did they want a deposit cheque sent or could I hand it in at the Boat show this Saturday (I am going again). and some other questions about fitting the electrics e.t.c.

I got a telephone call yesterday from Tohatsu in Lymington stating they had not received the fax and perhaps their machine had been out of paper. After discussing the contents of the fax yesterday with them, and arranging a test drive for Saturday, I re sent the fax, with a promise of a telephone call this morning from them to clear up any of the questions. I heard nothing and after five calls to see what was going on I got my fax sent back this afternoon with "Sorry Boat Sold For Cash". I rang them up as I was paying cash to be told that the MD had sold it and that was that.

Well what can I say. I have made it clear I am unhappy as I bought quite a few accessories after shaking on the deal at the boat show on their advice as to what would be needed. A telephone call to explain what they were doing would have been the least they could do. Are the dealers different to the owners? it seems that way. I will wait and see if they ring me.

Pete (Still not got a boat yet)
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Old 19 September 2002, 14:30   #2
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Surely should be yours??

Surely if you agreed and all that- on price etc and how the package was as you saw it - that was how you bought it??

If (which does happen at shows) Someone sells it 'beneath' you, it should not matter, as you were the first to agree to part with your hard earned cash - especially as you agreed to pay cash also- then a bad sales decision has been made - time for you to expose the dealer/manufacturer in question - surely??

what is the difference between your cash and someone else's??

Nothing


Pete F
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Old 19 September 2002, 14:53   #3
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I have sent a fax asking for a full explanation, I would hope to have a reply by tomorrow. If not, I will not hesitate to share all the information with anyone who wants it.

What really annoyed me was that after agreeing to buy it I wasted the boat show looking for stuff for it, and not at other boats that I could have bought. I have the only car in South London with a Fishfinder, four fenders, VHF aerial, and floating rope in it. The fishfinder goes mad whenever I pass the local fish and chip shop! Maybe someone will be lucky if I take my wad down there this Saturday and wave it about, I am sure I could get a good deal on something, perhaps a SIB!

I am sure that there will also be someone out there who may want to upgrade and sell me theirs as a starter boat.

Pete
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Old 19 September 2002, 15:49   #4
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Hi Pete

If you dont get any joy I would talk to a lawer I think that a verbal contract is just as binding as a writen one, providing you have witnesses to the agreement. This should be easy to prove as you have an order acknowledgement.

Eitherway I think you should name and shame the company.

Good Luck Gary
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Old 19 September 2002, 16:16   #5
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Gary,

Life is too short for all that, some on the Forum are aware of a serious illnes that I am just recovering from (like being told you only have 5 - 7 weeks to live, not funny at all). This was to be the start of something exciting and new, I haven't decided what to do about the Consultants at the hospital for tropical diseases for what they did to me, so a boat is very low on the list re lawyers. I just felt let down, but let's face it from what I have seen on this forum there are a lot of good guys around, I can't be bothered and won't waste time on the ar..holes that are about, I don't need them. As you said there are other ways to shame them, which would probably have more impact anyway. I took the purchase seriously (it is a lot of real cash) as you will see by all my questions, and the kind advice given. It is not the end of the world, but the principle that annoys me. I am not jumping the gun, I have said what I think in my fax to them, perhaps it is just a mistake! If they stick by what they have done, then they have stooped very low, you will all be the first to know at 5pm tomorrow.

Thanks for your support,

Pete
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Old 19 September 2002, 16:21   #6
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A verbal contract on goods, as opposed to houses, is binding in England. However as you were faxing to ask questions about return of deposit if boat unsuitable after test drive perhaps your side of the contract did not appear that solid to the seller. But practically a) do you really want to do business with someone you are in dispute with-things will not be easy if you have a fault to sort out even if you get the boat eventually, and b) what is the point of seeing a solicitor or whatever and paying legal fees that could be money put into your new boat when you have picked it-there are lots of boats out there especially as we come to the end of the season
Walk away and find yourself another boat and deal with someone with whom you will be on better terms with - and when you get it enjoy it cos thats what its all about!!!
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Old 19 September 2002, 16:26   #7
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Pete - our replies must have crossed going down the wire! seems you have already decided to go the way I would have done. Good luck with finding your boat
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Old 19 September 2002, 16:29   #8
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I agree with all you have said , but I will see if there has been a mistake tomorrow. Re the deposit, I understand that, but when I offered to pay by credit card at the show I was told they did not have the facility (strange for a main dealer) and told just to put a cheque in the post. There is less cover / safety / come back by paying by cheque, I didn't mind doing that, but that is why I wanted the confirmation about the return of it should the boat not be suitable.

Pete
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Old 19 September 2002, 16:30   #9
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Crossed again, great minds think alike!!

Pete
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Old 19 September 2002, 17:21   #10
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Pete,

Time to move on, I reckon!

You were uncertain that it was the right boat for you, and although I still reckon it was a bargin, you weren't 100% confident of the package.

There's loads of 2nd hand boats for sale, and some other good ex-demo boats, and of course every new boat imaginable...

I went on the buy-a-boat at the boatshow, and was wizzed around on a Tornado 585 + Merc115, Humber 6.5 + Evinrude Ficht 135, and a Redbay 7.4 + Evinrude Ficht 225. They were all superb boats, with the biggest being, of course, the most impressive.

Get a copy of "Buy-a-boat" - there's some more ex-dem boats in the RIB section at the back. Also a guy I know has his Temptress 7m + Mariner200 up for sale at around 12k.

If the dealer was so desperate to unload the boat to the first one with the cash, then he can't be too confident in his product. I did have a nose around the Diesel inboard version that they had on their stand, and after a 30 second conversation with the salesman, came away with the opinion that their attitude stank. Not uncommon in the marine industry, unfortuantely! A breath of fresh air at the show was the Geko helmets stand where I had a very interesting and enlightening conversation with their MD. It'll be worth a separate post later.

Rich.
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Old 20 September 2002, 01:01   #11
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It sounds to me that they didn't want to sell YOU the boat because you asked too many questions! I reckon you may have had a lucky escape.

Keith ) my world has turned inside out ( Hart
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Old 20 September 2002, 08:53   #12
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From what I can see, although disappointing, this is quite a straight forward matter.

It's an ex-demo boat that Tohatsu wants to sell. They offer it at a good price, and are looking for a hassle free deal.

Pete shakes hands on the deal at the boat show, but afterwards says he wants to change the deal (make it subject to sea trial etc). In the meantime someone else comes along with the cash and says they'll buy the boat there and then.

I know who I would have sold it to.

[usual disclaimers, I am not a lawyer, I may not have all the facts, this is just my opinion etc etc]

Pete, it is difficult being sure that a deal is right for you when you are starting out, but sometimes the inevitable (and wise!) caution will mean that you miss out on a deal. Better this way than to rush into something and then find it's not for you.

Better luck with the next one!

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Old 20 September 2002, 13:58   #13
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John,

There is more to this than I think you know, I am going to put all the facts on the forum tomorrow for people to make up their own mind. What was done was despicable, but it was their boat to sell. As for the test drive I had asked for one but was offered it in a 7.1mtr with a 140hp engine! a bit like test driving a Mondeo when you are buying a Fiesta, call me suspicious, was there anything to hide, would YOU spend 14,000 without getting in the boat you were going to buy, would any reasonable person expect you to buy a boat without seeing if it floats? (it was on a tyre in the middle of a field!). Anyway I had been warned about them by two different people in telephone calls to me when I first made contact with them. I had also been warned that the boat had done more hours than they had said, and there was a story behind it. After speaking with them and putting this to them, they denied it, and I trusted what they said. I was willing to take the risk, but as for not seeing if it floats. I may be starting off but that is plain daft to me.

As I said, full facts will appear tomorrow with a copy to Tohatsu in Japan. I have worked there and I do not think they will take too kindly to their UK importer treating clients in such a way.

As far as I was concerned I was buying a boat from Tohatsu HQ in the UK. The name Tohatsu has been shamed by them.

Full facts to follow tomorrow,

Pete
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Old 20 September 2002, 15:25   #14
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Flanker

Dear Flanker

There is nothing worse than being let down in this world and subsequently being disappointed....

However I think for your first boat spending 14K is a lot of money to find out if you like ribbing or not.

There are a lot of boats for sale out there and I really think a very late secondhand outfit bought from a genuine person could be a much better deal. By buying in the autumn you may even, (if you decide ribbing is not for you) , be able to onward sell in the spring without loss.

In my humble opinion you should be able to get a cracking outfit for around 6/7/8k secondhand. I think a good sized boat is a 5+ metre with a four stroke for economy.

Some good sites to give you an idea whats available are

www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk

www.buyaboat.co.uk

I'm sure you'll get plenty of help on this forum
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Old 20 September 2002, 18:53   #15
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Matibaoy,

I agree 100%, what is important is that people see what was done. I may be new to boating but I am honest, I was buying this one as a trial before buying something a little more serious. I have no problems with finding another one but the way in which I have had my time wasted by these people, without so much as a phone call to explain stinks. I took the advice from you, the people who know and have the real experience, when I dared to ask questions to Tohatsu UK it went very quiet, I just received a fax saying the boat was sold. The fax was after I had spoken to the sales manager the very day before, and a test drive was meant to be being arranged on the boat I was buying for this Saturday (not the 7.1mtr 140hp), hence my request for some guidance on this site, which was offered by many. I may be suspicious but I am sure that the word got out that Ribnet readers were on route! Anyway you have all done an excellent job with your advice and saved me from this mess, I hate to imagine what kind of warranty I would have had from this lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tohatsu UK of Lymington, MD David Lees.

Keep a look out for THE TRUTH tomorrow. Tohatsu UK you will never get a penny from me, as far as I am concerned you have shamed the name of the company Tohatsu (copies being sent to Tohatsu HQ in Japan)

Thank you to the informant, whoever you were, who warned me off, putting me on my guard, you were right! (I still don't know where you got my mobile number from)

Anyone who agrees with the way they treated me, is as bad as them.

Pete
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Old 21 September 2002, 00:41   #16
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Pete,

Interestingly if you do a search here for members with the word 'tohatsu' in the boat type it returnes...

...nothing!

As you say yourself we are 'the people who know and have the real experience' so does this maybe say something?

Take a look and the twin engined outfit for 7.5k on this site (i said that before - no commision, hoinest) a great starter outfit.

Daniel
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Old 21 September 2002, 03:28   #17
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Pete

It's beginning to sound like perhaps you ought to just get over it. Rantings promising to reveal "THE TRUTH" always start to sound alarm bells with me!

Whatever course of action you decide to persue I must insist that you do not involve RIBnet in any way.

Thanks
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Old 21 September 2002, 04:04   #18
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John,

I am not 'ranting', just a descent person with morals. I take note of what you say, I want to place the facts and only the facts on this forum, I can back this up with documentation that will be available to anyone who would like to view it. This will detail MY experience with Tohatsu Marine UK, which I would like to share. I thought that this forum was for information sharing, I want to let the viewers make up their own mind.

The last thing I want to do is upset anyone on here, you have all been so good to me. John please answer these questions openly :-

Am I being silenced John?

Are dirty tactics condoned by RIBnet?

Am I permitted to the put facts of MY recent dealings with Tohatsu Marine Uk on this forum?

The only link with RIBnet is the great help and support that I have been given, there is nothing in the facts that mention RIBnet.

Companies who treat their customers in such a way have to face the consequences, they have to understand that as a result of their actions, others may wish not to deal with them either. Of course everyone is free to make their own choice. I have seen mention of preference to products on here, waht is the difference.

The facts will be published elswhere anyway, I just don't want to have to say that RIBnet refused to let me put those same facts on their forum.

John, I will however go with the majority here, as I said before it is your forum, and the best I have seen, well done John! If anyone out there wants to see or does not want to see the facts please send me a PM with YES or NO on, I won't disclose who did or didn't want to see it, I will go with the majority. I will postpone the facts until Monday to give you all the choice, as I said before, it is your forum and I respect that.

Thanks to you all for everything,

Pete (off to the boat show to get a boat)
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Old 22 September 2002, 05:32   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flanker
John please answer these questions openly :-

Am I being silenced John?

Are dirty tactics condoned by RIBnet?

Am I permitted to the put facts of MY recent dealings with Tohatsu Marine Uk on this forum?
I'm happy to answer your questions, but please bear in mind that RIBnet is absolutely not a democracy, it is a benevolent dictatorship!

1 You are not being silenced. There is the whole internet out there for you to state your case if you so wish. If you want to put your facts onto a web site of your own, I have no objection to you posting a link to it. Once.

2 No, dirty tactics are not condoned by RIBnet. Nor are attacks on companies or individuals. There are better ways and means of making your views known or persuing a complaint. If people have received poor service then it is good to know, but I don't like ranting.

3 I'd rather you didn't. However, if you feel it is of genuine relevance to others here, then a brief outline of your version of events will suffice. I think we've had that.

Now, go and find that boat!

John
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Old 22 September 2002, 17:42   #20
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Flanker,

whereabouts do you live?
regards
Stuart
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