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Old 16 March 2005, 10:32   #21
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To be honest is a course lasting a few days REALLY sufficient? It comes to something when someone with say 20yrs of experience is not considered as "safe" as someone who has just passed a few days of training!!!
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Old 16 March 2005, 10:42   #22
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So having to do an exam for the commercial endorsement is just another way for the rya to grab more money from people. typical.
Nope, don't actually believe this was the objective keytouch. The reason for the change was to ensure that anyone achieving a commercial endorsement at a level where they can take 12 passengers up to 20 miles offshore is up to the job, doing that via the advanced course was not ideal hence bring it into line with Yachtmaster/Coastal Skipper - which is by examination.

As to your comment re the RYA making extra money. The cost is £130 (or so) for a 5-6 hour session of which the Powerboat Examiner gets about £75. Don't really think a company Learjet will be on the cards yet for RYA Training!

Hope this makes it a little clearer keytouch

Paul
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Old 16 March 2005, 10:52   #23
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Originally Posted by Paul Glatzel
Cookee - Commercially Endorsed Level 2 is acceptable for Skippers under Local Authority Coding in the Solent (& probably other places), & Cat 6 (& possibly Cat 5, can't remember but there's a thread under the commercial section on it) MCA coding



Nope! Not in addition. You can do Advanced Exam without doing the advanced however having it reduces the entry requirements see here -

http://www.powerboat-training-uk.co....ndorsement.htm

Direct assessment. Typically these take 3 hours but this allows for a bit of training to 'refine' the odd area if it is a bit rusty. Could undertake longer direct assessments if relevant but realistically if someone requires more time they should do the entire course as they would benefit from it.

1 to 1 Level 2 in 1 day is not acceptable and the RYA (Jon Mendez) are keen to hear of anyone offering this.

Paul

Thanks for that Paul, but to quote your own website -

"We are not 100% clear on this"

and you are meant to know!

To be fair I've looked at the RYA website and it isn't exactly helpfull - referring pages arn't complete etc ..............

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Old 16 March 2005, 11:01   #24
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Look at it as a standard, nought more, its like lots of things, it says that the holder on that day reached that standard. It doesn't mean that some one with 50+ years experiance is not as good as newly passed L2.
But for things like lawyers & insurance they like a standard, it says you have reached a certain level of knowledge and competancy.
I personally look at L2 the same as my driving instructor said to me once I passed my test - "you are now safe enough to go and learn by yourself"

Rgds
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Old 16 March 2005, 11:02   #25
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I am sure Paul will clarify this point but doesnt it say further in the paragraph contact us for an update. The post was of the 1st Jan.
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Old 16 March 2005, 11:23   #26
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Has anybody seen a heavy goods vehicle with double L plates, this means that the driver has not even passed his car licence but can take his test in a truck and if competent will be awarded both licences. A 38 Ton artic is more deadly than a rib but the truck driver can drive this rig with out any experience, he must have an instructor with him (or her) who has passed a very stringent examination not just a 3 day RYA instructors course

So why should a candidate not be able to take a test for his level two powerboat and if competent be awarded his certificate. To make someone take a full course just to obtain a certificate is no more than profiteering. If he is good enough then he is good enough without the course.

The one thing that makes me sick is the profiteering that goes on once you mention boats or ribs, all the parts and oils jump in price and all of a sudden we have experts in all fields, with a sharp intake of breath the marine engineer ( who would not be employed by a local garage because of his lack of experience) tells you that your motor needs ****** and that will cost £****** To the many good competent engineers out there I am sorry, but you will have put right many cock up jobs these experts have “sorted” and it is just the same in the training field. It is all money orientated, I know we all need to live but commonsense must at some time take part
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Old 16 March 2005, 11:52   #27
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Originally Posted by Dave B
Has anybody seen a heavy goods vehicle with double L plates, this means that the driver has not even passed his car licence but can take his test in a truck ....
Is this new? or a "Manx" thing?.... Remind me to run away if I see a "double L plater"...

Quote from DVLA website...

"If you wish to apply for a provisional driving licence to drive vehicles over 3,500kgs, minibuses and buses you must hold a valid full driving licence"
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Old 16 March 2005, 11:54   #28
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Cookee

Your post/quote is a little mischevious!

Quote:
"We are not 100% clear on this"
The only part where it says the above is in the following paragrapgh

Quote:
How Do I Apply For a Commercial Endorsement?

Post 1st Jan 2005 examinations

We are not 100% clear on this as either the commercial endorsement will be issued upon completion of the examination with the Powerboat Examiner having viewed the other relevant qualifications , or perhaps will occur as below. Contact us for an update

This simply refers to the part about whether having passed the course the Examiner does everything there & then and signs off the form or it all goes back via the 'Office' (the 'RYA'). It would appear that the Examiner then views all the relevant documents at the end of the exam thus preventing the need to send them in. The commercial endorsemnet is then issued. I will update the website this weekend to correct this as i agree it's a bit out of date.

Has to be said that Advanced Exams are few & far between at present and i'm yet to do one but that i suspect is largely because anyone who wants a commercial endorsement was part of the rush for Advanced Certs in the latter stages of 2004

Paul
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Old 16 March 2005, 11:56   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave B
So why should a candidate not be able to take a test for his level two powerboat and if competent be awarded his certificate. To make someone take a full course just to obtain a certificate is no more than profiteering. If he is good enough then he is good enough without the course.
I thought that was what Paul was saying you could do - just take the exam (1/2 a day if I understand correctly) rather than the full 2 day course and exam.

I admit I am still unsure exactly what this other part is? Once you've got your advanced or level 2, do you have to take what is essentially the coastal / yachtmaster theory exam as well? If so I think it is only fair enough.

With the current trends in people resorting to the courts for compensation at the drop of a hat, if anything went wrong I would want to have proof that I had had proper training and my qualifications counted for something.

One other point worth considering, to get a commercial endorsment, you need a certain amount of experience anyway before you even start taking exams ..................
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Originally Posted by Zippy
When a boat looks that good who needs tubes!!!
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Old 16 March 2005, 11:59   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Glatzel
Cookee

Your post/quote is a little mischevious!


Paul
Sorry - I was just trying to point out that the whole situation is as clear as mud and the RYA arn't making it easier! Your site quotes the RYA site word for word and I still don't know what this other exam is!
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