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Old 14 December 2009, 07:15   #51
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can i ask fuller to rejoin
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Old 14 December 2009, 07:18   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kennett View Post
I disagree. For normal leisure use on a powerboat there is no advantage to a manual, and no significant disadvantage to an auto.

You may have special reason for wanting to get into the water, but most don't - and if they did, they'd most likely be wearing a bouyancy aid anyway. I think all your post does is muddy the water and put doubt into people's minds, potentially leading them to making poor decisions and ending up less safe. I'm sure that's not what you intended though!
If your playing that game I disagree with you then. If auto's are the way forward why do people sell manuals?
I swim to my mooring which is why a manual suits me.
I know if autos get really wet then they can self inflate granted newer deigns won't do this.

All I did was express my opinion for what is best for my uses, perhaps you could let us have the option of having polls on this forum and see who uses what if I'm muddying the water?
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Old 14 December 2009, 07:21   #53
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DM might shed more light on this but don't the foil blankets also keep the cold in?
There is some slightly odd physics involved in that suggestion! Assuming you are still metabolising (alive) you are producing heat. Assuming that you are warmer than the air (in the UK most likely) then heat always goes from hot to cold. So you are heating the surroundings. However the foil blankets are generally not great because they only stop you loosing radiated heat, convected and conducted heat (e.g. onto the cold deck) is still lost.
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Plastic survival bags that are orange might be better.
The colour is irrelevant!
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We have an body bag (sorry Ambulance Pouch) that works well.
won't reassure the casualty that all is well though!
I have a bothy bag (the modern 'generic name' for what used to be known as a KISU - Karimore Instructors Survival Unit). Very compact and light weight. Available in various sizes, shares body heat. Surprisingly effective even in pissing rain/gales when cold and wet. I carry it on the boat in case it gets nasty and the kids are getting too cold and wet while we head for shore - but it would be useful in rewarming a (or multiple) MoBs
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Old 14 December 2009, 07:30   #54
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Originally Posted by Polwart View Post
The colour is irrelevant!won't reassure the casualty that all is well though!
I have a bothy bag (the modern 'generic name' for what used to be known as a KISU - Karimore Instructors Survival Unit). Very compact and light weight. Available in various sizes, shares body heat. Surprisingly effective even in pissing rain/gales when cold and wet. I carry it on the boat in case it gets nasty and the kids are getting too cold and wet while we head for shore - but it would be useful in rewarming a (or multiple) MoBs
I have one of them from my winter hill walking days, i will dig that out as well for the winter RIB survival kit......As Roy Schnieder quoted in JAWS, i think i am "gonna need a bigger boat".
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Old 14 December 2009, 07:34   #55
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Originally Posted by Polwart View Post
However the foil blankets are generally not great because they only stop you loosing radiated heat, convected and conducted heat (e.g. onto the cold deck) is still lost.
They are also hopeless at keeping the wind out, and need the be held onto tightly to stop them blowing away. Only marginally better than nothing, and certainly not as good as a spare jacket.
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I have a bothy bag (the modern 'generic name' for what used to be known as a KISU - Karimore Instructors Survival Unit). Very compact and light weight. Available in various sizes, shares body heat. Surprisingly effective even in pissing rain/gales when cold and wet. I carry it on the boat in case it gets nasty and the kids are getting too cold and wet while we head for shore - but it would be useful in rewarming a (or multiple) MoBs
One of these?
http://www.outdoorstore.co.uk/products/bothy%20bags.asp

Looks like a handy bit of kit, but a 2 orange plastic survival bag would probably be just as good for most people!
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Old 14 December 2009, 07:41   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy View Post
If auto's are the way forward why do people sell manuals?
Because there are some specialist applications where it may be appropriate. Because people think its worth saving a fiver. Because people spread rumours like "I know if autos get really wet then they can self inflate" but actually its very rare - and avoidable with the more expensive ones. Because on some boats (larger yachts) they are only worn when people are e.g. abandoning ship. If worn below decks an auto jacket may impede escape during a capsize.
Quote:
I swim to my mooring which is why a manual suits me.
If I swam to my mooring I would use a bouyancy aid and keep a LJ on the boat. Or buy a little tender! Anyone who swims to their mooring would immediately appreciate that an Auto jacket would not suit their needs.
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Old 14 December 2009, 07:42   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwart View Post
There is some slightly odd physics involved in that suggestion! Assuming you are still metabolising (alive) you are producing heat. Assuming that you are warmer than the air (in the UK most likely) then heat always goes from hot to cold. So you are heating the surroundings. However the foil blankets are generally not great because they only stop you loosing radiated heat, convected and conducted heat (e.g. onto the cold deck) is still lost.
The colour is irrelevant!won't reassure the casualty that all is well though!
I have a bothy bag (the modern 'generic name' for what used to be known as a KISU - Karimore Instructors Survival Unit). Very compact and light weight. Available in various sizes, shares body heat. Surprisingly effective even in pissing rain/gales when cold and wet. I carry it on the boat in case it gets nasty and the kids are getting too cold and wet while we head for shore - but it would be useful in rewarming a (or multiple) MoBs
No the colour isn't relevent but you'll find most survival bags are orange. The last person we had in the bag seemed very grateful that he was kept out of the wind and water. Its orange not black although as you say the colour isn't relevent.

The plastic survial bags work better at speed as you can cut holes in them and and wear them, the foil just blows everywhere.
I have a tender but its easier to carry the fuel down at low water and then swim across later.

Nice to see the mods are all in festive moods this morning.
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Old 14 December 2009, 07:47   #58
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That post bought back some memories for me - and I'm very glad to read that you were both OK.

I came out of my boat in July and dislocated my shoulder in the process, I am not young and fit and had I not been wearing a life jacket, I wouldn't be here now. And I'm really not exaggerating. I'm still having physio which acts as a regular reminder!

After the accident, I did a couple of things.

1. I replaced all my manual jackets for auto inflates. I managed to inflate my manual jacket in the accident - but figured that auto was going to be safer in the future.

2. I always wear a kill cord (you did too - thank God), but I didn't wear one in my accident. My own stupidity.

3. Always give a safety briefing to anyone who comes aboard.

Really very glad to read you were both OK, your post really made an impact on me having been involved in something similar.

I had always thought that chine walking crept in, I've been on the edge of it and backed off immediately... didn't know it could suddenly appear....
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Old 14 December 2009, 07:51   #59
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Gibbo,

Glad you're ok.

We used to have a SR5.4 with a 90hp 2st which would also chine walk if no positive throttle / trim inputs were made. The boat would start to chine walk at about 39 knots relatively consistantly. I found that throttling back would reduce the walk, as would trimming the the nose down. Which course of action I chose was dependant on the general sea condidtions.

For example, if it was flat calm then trimming in a little would be enough to stop it. However, if I was playing around in the chop and there were likely to be waves / wash that would 'tip' me further into the direction of the walk then the only course of action was to throttle back.

With regards to auto vs manual lifejackets, this for me is a no brainer and I agree with JK.

If you get ejected from your rib you are likely to be traveling relatively fast (20 knots plus). if you get ejected at this speed it is very possible to whack youself on a part of the rib that will be harder than your head. If this doesn't happen then you could easily get winded on impact in the water. In either case, you will probably be shocked and disorientated.

If you are unconcious when you hit the water you will probably die if you're jacket doesn't auto inflate. How are you are going to manually inflate a lifejacket if you are unconcious? Just a thought......

The only very minor down side is that yes, swimming in a fully inflated lifejacket is quite difficult and energy sapping. However, the SOP for this is to simply deflate the lifejacket a little and crack on with the swim....If it's gone really belly up and you're going to be in the water for a while then you can very easily re-inflate the jacket using the oral inflater.

I don't want to get into a debate about hand-held VHFs vs mobiles but I ALWAYS carry my (fully charged) mobile in an Aquapac that is fastended to me by a landyard. That way I should be able to get help from within the water whilst I'm swimming around.

At the of the day I think we're all glad on ribnet that you survived the experience and that we can all learn from shared experiences......
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Old 14 December 2009, 08:02   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy View Post
I swim to my mooring which is why a manual suits me.
If you had explained that you had a strange and unusual reason for chosing a manual that would have been fine. I was concerned that it might be interpreted as a suggestion that a manual jacket would be as good as an auto for a "normal" person!

For normal leisure use on a powerboat there is no advantage to a manual, and no significant disadvantage to an auto.
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