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Old 05 November 2012, 08:02   #51
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Having read the thread so far I think everone is agreed that the wearing of LJ/ PFD is generally a good / sensible thing in most circumstances and should be encouraged.

I would not dream of being on a small craft without an LJ/PFD, but if on a yacht it mght be that being clipped on with a harness so one doesn't go over in the first place is the "safer" option (OK so you could have LJ and safety line).

Legislating for this will be very difficult in terms of definitions, exceptions etc (e.g. if I'm swimming off the boat, at what point do I have put an LJ back on?). Knee-jerk, needless or over simplifed legislation is rarely good law.

Who would enforce it and how?
I wouldn't want more delegated legal authority to harbour authorities or rescue services to levey fines turning them more into another police enforcement (revenue raising) organisation. There would be nothing to stop a person removing a LJ out of a harbour limit in any case. I wouldn't want marine police lurking around evey headland waiting to pounce on "random" inspections.

I would suggest that if life is lost at sea / on the water needlessly (or to be more accurately - where it could have practicably been avoided) by an individual wearing a life jacket then it should be possible to prosecute the captain of the vessel for failing in their duty of care towards passengers under current legislation - be it friends / family or paying passengers, if it's in the public interest.

If you take this further for leisure users, what else might be legislated for - minimum safety equipment every boat must carry,compulsory VHF fixed / handheld on every craft with random inspections and fines levied by harbour patrols? Every boat could have to be coded - there's an industry waiting to happen - a compulsory appropriate licence for every boat helm / captain etc...... Each of these COULD possibly save a life. Where would you draw the line?

Is education not better and let people take their own decisions / responsibilities?
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Old 05 November 2012, 08:23   #52
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Quote:
Is education not better and let people take their own decisions / responsibilities?
So get rid of the driving licence for cars give everyone a DVD, they all will learn eventually or die?

Quote:
It has to come down to commmon sense, influenced with some leaned behaviour, and if you don't have that, how on earth did you manage to get on the boat if the first place.
Takes no common scene to open your wallet and step aboard, and if your only tutor is some other Muppet with no clue, your learned behavior is going to be poor.
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Old 05 November 2012, 09:40   #53
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I believe all vessels must have a radio in the US, switch on and working and generally on the emergency channel??
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Old 05 November 2012, 10:07   #54
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I think your suggestion would be a very good solution.


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Originally Posted by lakelandterrier View Post
Having read the thread so far I think everone is agreed that the wearing of LJ/ PFD is generally a good / sensible thing in most circumstances and should be encouraged.

I would not dream of being on a small craft without an LJ/PFD, but if on a yacht it mght be that being clipped on with a harness so one doesn't go over in the first place is the "safer" option (OK so you could have LJ and safety line).

Legislating for this will be very difficult in terms of definitions, exceptions etc (e.g. if I'm swimming off the boat, at what point do I have put an LJ back on?). Knee-jerk, needless or over simplifed legislation is rarely good law.

Who would enforce it and how?
I wouldn't want more delegated legal authority to harbour authorities or rescue services to levey fines turning them more into another police enforcement (revenue raising) organisation. There would be nothing to stop a person removing a LJ out of a harbour limit in any case. I wouldn't want marine police lurking around evey headland waiting to pounce on "random" inspections.

I would suggest that if life is lost at sea / on the water needlessly (or to be more accurately - where it could have practicably been avoided) by an individual wearing a life jacket then it should be possible to prosecute the captain of the vessel for failing in their duty of care towards passengers under current legislation - be it friends / family or paying passengers, if it's in the public interest.

If you take this further for leisure users, what else might be legislated for - minimum safety equipment every boat must carry,compulsory VHF fixed / handheld on every craft with random inspections and fines levied by harbour patrols? Every boat could have to be coded - there's an industry waiting to happen - a compulsory appropriate licence for every boat helm / captain etc...... Each of these COULD possibly save a life. Where would you draw the line?

Is education not better and let people take their own decisions / responsibilities?
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Old 05 November 2012, 10:22   #55
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A further thought:
If government time is to be spent on legislating to save life aren't there higher priority areas to save more lives :
1) ban tobacco / smoking
2) outlaw alcohol
3) ban foods with high fat / salt levels
3) compulsory exercise classes for the whole poulation (at work or elsewhere)
4) reduce all road speeds limits to 30 mph
etc.....

Now I'll definitely

LT
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Old 05 November 2012, 11:06   #56
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Mission Creep

This is how it will go (guarantee it).

First spend a fortune (paid for by the tax payer) getting the lawyers to write the legislation.

Then make the wearing of life jackets compulsory.

Then make US pay for the annual compulsory testing of our life jackets.

Then spend a fortune (paid for by the tax payer) on an advertising and awareness campaign.

Then make US pay to set up a regulatory authority to enforce and prosecute.

Then tell US it's "revenue neutral" and not a money making scheme (although we all know it is).

Then find out it's impossible to enforce the legislation without compulsory registration of all vessels.

Then spend a fortune (paid for by the tax payer) getting the lawyers to write the legislation.

Then make the registration of all vessels compulsory.

Round about now - Bin the whole thing and write off all the costs because the European Court has ruled that it's a contravention of our Human Rights.

Finally pay out a fortune in compensation (paid for by the tax payer) for all those poor people who have had their Human Rights infringed by being made to wear something that might just save their lives!

You heard it here first!
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Old 05 November 2012, 12:26   #57
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I would not get excited about this e petition anyway, as they only have presently 138 votes and need 100,000 just to get it listed for a debate and then they have to follow the following rules to try to gain something-

E-Petitions and the Backbench Business Committee - UK Parliament
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