Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 09 December 2008, 11:19   #41
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Southampton
Boat name: Yoda & Obi Wan
Make: XS700
Length: 7m +
Engine: 200 HP
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,032
First of all the Searider flooding hull is not the same as the proposed boat flooding technique. The SR floods its hull so as to increase stability at rest in all sea states and lower the freeboard for safety/rescue situations. It is also a design feature of the boat.

Alan

I will concede that there may be a situation where flooding works. I have not tried it but you evidentially have used is successfully as an offshore technique. However I think it’s very dangerous to make a statement like
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Priddy View Post
I would always advocate filling a boat with water.
when the discussion is talking about lee shores.

I do not agree that heavy weather lee shores should be treated using the same storm tactics as in open ocean where the objective is simply to ride out the storm

As impressive as the CV is (which I do respect by the way) none of it relates to lee shores.

You said yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Priddy View Post
It has to be accepted that unless you have tried any of this in BIG seas, comments can only be made from courses that you have attended and books you have read.
So returning to the earlier discussion the first idea presented was

Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy View Post
I've used sea anchors loads of times on the Atlantics and they work…………..I'd prefer to ride it out facing the weather rather than just bobbing and surfing all over the place.
It was presented by someone who has used it and was taught it by an organisation who have used it many times


The second idea presented was

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Priddy View Post
Better still, don’t use it. We worked a long time on establish if a sea anchor would work in big seas and the boat ended up being safer without. I would always advocate filling the boat with water if you cannot make headway in big seas or are drifting on to a lee shore……………On a lee shore the craft should rise up and down over the hazards of rocks etc and get you closer to shore so you have a better chance of not being smashed to pieces on the rocks. Of course the boat is a total write off but you and the crew should live to tell the tale.
So which one would most Ribnet members use, the proactive method that has been tried and tested, avoids smashing the boat against rocks and has saved boats and crews or the one that suggests you accept you will be blown onto a lee shore, hope you rise over the hazards, you accept your boat will be written of and you hope that one you have landed it will be safe to walk away.

Further to my previous post I have now armed my knowledge base with the idea of flooding the hull if I am weathering a storm offshore in a RIB however I totally disagree with the idea that this is suitable for all boats and I am far from convinced that it is appropriate for lee shores.
__________________
Doug Stormforce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 December 2008, 11:59   #42
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Shepperton
Boat name: Shamu
Make: BananaShark
Length: 7m +
Engine: 225 optimax
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 148
quick question, when you deploy either a drogue or a sea anchor do you have any steerage? even a little influence?
__________________
Lewy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 December 2008, 13:26   #43
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: swansea
Boat name: Too Blue
Make: BLANK
Length: 8m +
Engine: Suzuki DT225
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,791
A drogue can give you some steering if properly rigged. Basically you rig a bridle and let out one of the lines a bit more.

I don't know if it's been mentioned already but there is one VERY useful trick with a drogue - that's to attach to a boat that's being towed. It can improve stability a massive amount.
__________________
codprawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 December 2008, 13:33   #44
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Shepperton
Boat name: Shamu
Make: BananaShark
Length: 7m +
Engine: 225 optimax
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn View Post
I don't know if it's been mentioned already but there is one VERY useful trick with a drogue - that's to attach to a boat that's being towed. It can improve stability a massive amount.
__________________
Lewy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 December 2008, 14:26   #45
K&S
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Glasgow
Boat name: Riberty
Make: xs 650
Length: 6m +
Engine: suzuki 175
MMSI: 235063328
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 377
Worth mentioning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce View Post
First of all the Searider flooding hull is not the same as the proposed boat flooding technique. The SR floods its hull so as to increase stability at rest in all sea states and lower the freeboard for safety/rescue situations. It is also a design feature of the boat.

Also worth mentioning that it would be more stable if kept bow head onto oncoming waves in severe conditions esp if carrying out a rescue rather then being 'beem on' and assisting casualty, thus exposing the high side to oncoming waves?




Just another bit to add to the mix -

If the boat that has been flooded is armed with overpressure valves, would the added weight and pressure not start the decompression of the tubes. Surely this does not add to the safety of the boat in such a condition and should be considered before taking action so drastic as to deliberately fill a boat.

I dont suppose anybody is going to want to be pumping tubes up in those conditions.

The only reason i ponder this is Avon white water rafts have pressure valves on the floor and they tended to deflate when a raft was swamped.
__________________
K&S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 December 2008, 02:40   #46
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: swansea
Boat name: Too Blue
Make: BLANK
Length: 8m +
Engine: Suzuki DT225
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewy View Post
Go on then!!!
__________________
codprawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 December 2008, 12:41   #47
JSP
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Southport
Boat name: Qudos
Make: 5.4 Searider
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yam 115 V4
MMSI: 235068784
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,930
Quote:
A drogue can give you some steering if properly rigged. Basically you rig a bridle and let out one of the lines a bit more.

I don't know if it's been mentioned already but there is one VERY useful trick with a drogue - that's to attach to a boat that's being towed. It can improve stability a massive amount.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewy View Post
I thought Codprawn gave a good answer to your question.
__________________
JSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 December 2008, 16:10   #48
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Shepperton
Boat name: Shamu
Make: BananaShark
Length: 7m +
Engine: 225 optimax
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSP View Post
I thought Codprawn gave a good answer to your question.
i misunderstood the last part of his answer, probably reading too quickly, i thought it was a joke.

i thought he was suggesting you should forget the drouge and just use the tether for attaching to another craft who'll tow you.
no hard feelings heh?
__________________
Lewy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 December 2008, 16:49   #49
JSP
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Southport
Boat name: Qudos
Make: 5.4 Searider
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yam 115 V4
MMSI: 235068784
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,930
Well that would be better than a sea anchor
__________________
JSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 December 2008, 21:44   #50
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Pwllheli-North Wales
Boat name: V-ONE
Make: Highfield
Length: 8m +
Engine: Honda 250hp
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,367
Obviously this lot have been listening to Alan Priddy
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	swampedrib.jpg
Views:	281
Size:	80.6 KB
ID:	39371  
__________________
www.waterwise-marine.co.uk
Jono Garton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 December 2008, 22:26   #51
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Towcester
Boat name: TBA
Make: Delta
Length: 6m +
Engine: Suzuki 175
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 330
Crowded commuter train..

Jono
great image you found there - reminds me of the grind into London on a typical commuter train.
all those guys and their gear...
Paul
__________________
Paul Beaurain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 December 2008, 08:42   #52
Member
 
Pete7's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Gosport
Boat name: April Lass
Make: Moody 31
Length: 9m +
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono Garton View Post
Obviously this lot have been listening to Alan Priddy
Oh I think they did, just look at the water in the boat. Flood the hull, slow the drift onto the lee shore which gives the lifeboat time to arrive. Good plan, well executed, resulting in a sucessful outcome eg: home in time for last orders

Now who was the cox who took that lot to sea because in addition to all the divers each one is likely to have 40 kgs of kit on board as well, prat

Pete
__________________
.
Ribnet is best viewed on a computer of some sort
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 December 2008, 14:52   #53
K&S
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Glasgow
Boat name: Riberty
Make: xs 650
Length: 6m +
Engine: suzuki 175
MMSI: 235063328
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 377
Would love to here the story behind your pic Jono.
My 2p bet says they didn't plan to be flooded unless it was an excersise?
__________________
K&S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 December 2008, 14:59   #54
K&S
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Glasgow
Boat name: Riberty
Make: xs 650
Length: 6m +
Engine: suzuki 175
MMSI: 235063328
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by K&S View Post

If the boat that has been flooded is armed with overpressure valves, would the added weight and pressure not start the decompression of the tubes. Surely this does not add to the safety of the boat in such a condition and should be considered before taking action so drastic as to deliberately fill a boat.
Would still like to know the answer to this question.

If i'm wrong no harm done and sorry for a moment of daftnes
If i'm right would it not be better to make all aware??




Perhaps onre of the tube manufacturers would be brave enough to answer -
__________________
K&S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 December 2008, 15:06   #55
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucestershire
Boat name: Osprey
Make: Osprey Vipermax
Length: 5m +
Engine: E-tec 300 G2
MMSI: TBC
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by K&S View Post
Would still like to know the answer to this question.

If i'm wrong no harm done and sorry for a moment of daftnes
If i'm right would it not be better to make all aware??




Perhaps onre of the tube manufacturers would be brave enough to answer -

It would depend upon a number of factors around tube design and valve spec. I doubt anyone could really answer your question. Why not try it


I have flooded my RIB to clean it out once (quite easy really just reverse hard) and noticed no ill effects with pressure valves fitted to all 5 chambers.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------
Chris Stevens

Born fiddler
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 December 2008, 15:13   #56
K&S
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Glasgow
Boat name: Riberty
Make: xs 650
Length: 6m +
Engine: suzuki 175
MMSI: 235063328
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
It would depend upon a number of factors around tube design and valve spec. I doubt anyone could really answer your question. Why not try it


I have flooded my RIB to clean it out once (quite easy really just reverse hard) and noticed no ill effects with pressure valves fitted to all 5 chambers.
I would do if any of the boats i use had valves fitted, my question and reason for specing my boat without valves (rightly or wrongly) originates from my time spent as a raft guide when the inflatable floors on Avon rafts would release when the raft was swamped. Interestingly the side tubes were not equiped with pressure valves.

I can imagine if the boat is light and in good conditions they wouldn't release but if the boat was heavily laiden and in adverse conditions then the tubes would be strained more.
__________________
K&S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 December 2008, 16:00   #57
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Pwllheli-North Wales
Boat name: V-ONE
Make: Highfield
Length: 8m +
Engine: Honda 250hp
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,367
http://www.anglelifeboat.org/gallery/shouts/img014.jpg
__________________
www.waterwise-marine.co.uk
Jono Garton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 December 2008, 10:28   #58
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Dorset & Hants
Boat name: Streaker/Orange
Make: Avon/Ribcraft
Length: 4m +
Engine: 50Yam/25 Mariner
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,551
I think this pic shows one reason why RIBS are pretty good - it still didnt sink despite having several tons of water, people , gear , etc in it !

I cant think they flooded it on purpose though - sea state looks reasonable to me
__________________
PeterM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 December 2008, 13:10   #59
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: swansea
Boat name: Too Blue
Make: BLANK
Length: 8m +
Engine: Suzuki DT225
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,791
That looks very much like the Swansea sub aqua club RIB. they have a Humber with a suzuki V6 2 stroke as well - I wonder............
__________________
codprawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 13:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.