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Old 08 December 2008, 12:35   #31
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Originally Posted by Alan Priddy View Post
RIBS

1997. 7.4 metre rib, North Atlantic coming back from USA via Greenland 55 knots lying a hull for 12 hours.
2000 10 metre rib 50 miles NW of Ireland 45 knots lying a hull for 20 hours.
2001 10 metre boat, 1000 miles off Canada Coming from New York to UK, 50 knots of wind and three converging storms (Hell) lying a hull for 15 hours.
2002 10 metre Rib 70 knots in the South China Seas 18 hours.
2002 10 metre rib 120 knots in Hurricaine Hannah, Canada. We went out for a play to see what would happen. After this I gave the sea anchor and drouge to The Royal Newfoundland Yacht Club to auction for charity as it was a waste of time to carry it..
2003 10 Metre rib 77 knots off the tip of Greenland 8 hours.
And we lived to tell the tale so in this case, there is a very good reason for flooding the hull.
I guess that one of the main things is to make sure your craft is built right in the first place and all the electrics are waterproofed. The other alternative is to look at the wetaher forecast and not go out in it!

Sailing

2006 Lively Lady 36 foot sailing yacht 50 knots North Atlantic 48 hours bare poled.
2006 Lively Lady 55 knots South Carolina 12 hours.
2007 Lively Lady 70 knots Wilsons promitary Australia. ( this is the area that the Sydney Hobart went all wrong.

The rest really doesnt matter but as I said earlier, What do I know? Everything that the skipper does has to be down to his skills and past experiances. I have sailed with many good skippers who have got in to lots of trouble by "Sailing by the Book"
Alan

What a CV

I'm not going to comment further as you don't talk any sense.

Jono
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Old 08 December 2008, 14:06   #32
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Hey, what do I know?????????????????
AS for bad advice, Before you all knock what I am saying, wait for a really bad day and try it.
A fully water logged boat of any discripton is better than something sitting on top of the water in any conditions.
Alan P
Not sure i agree with this 100%.
I understand to a point what you are saying. True a Searider with flooding hull is stable in all but the worst conditions but adding water to the inside of most boats i'm not with you on that one.

Having had a searider stuff in conditions far better than the conditions that you describe with the engine still going was a bit hair raising. The best tacktic was to get going with the waves to help empty it.

As for deliberately filling the boat and await our fait i dont think so, first of all the crew would have thought i had gone completely mad and second i'd be more inclined to get the boat anchored / stabalised with nose into the waves so at least the waves were coming in one direction rather than sitting broad side waiting to be 'bongo sliding' towads a lee shore

In conditions where i thought deliberately filling the boat to aid safety was a wise idea then perhaps i needed my head examining earlier in the day for going out
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Old 08 December 2008, 14:18   #33
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I'm with Alan on this (and no, I'm not blindly ageeing)

After stuffing both my seariders by being a pillock and going too fast in quite nasty weather,they moved very little when full of water to the transom.It's a bit disconcerting though!

I've also tried using a sea anchor on a rib on a few occasions. and there rarely seems to be quite enough windage to actually tension the line unless I could get a really good throw so the anchor ends up over the peak of the next wave.Unfortunately (it might be down to my sea anchor) it's not easy to throw what's effectively a parachute into the wind.

However, I tend to agree with K&S in the quote below far more!

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In conditions where i thought deliberately filling the boat to aid safety was a wise idea then perhaps i needed my head examining earlier in the day for going out
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Old 08 December 2008, 14:21   #34
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I was totally against Alans theory of filling my boat with water but considering the type of "cruising" he does who am I to argue. If thats what works in the middle of know where then so be it, horses for courses really.
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Old 08 December 2008, 14:26   #35
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I was totally against Alans theory of filling my boat with water but considering the type of "cruising" he does who am I to argue. If thats what works in the middle of know where then so be it, horses for courses really.
True its an impressive C.V.

However, i have to say that in ribbing terms most of my 'Sh%T what should i do now' moments have actually been on inland waters where you least expect them.

I'd far rather be in trouble in 3m high rounded waves in a larger rib than in a 4m rib in a steep breaking chop.
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Old 08 December 2008, 14:28   #36
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Thanks Alan, its good to hear other people expeirences and methods. Not sure if I should block the flooding hull on my SR up now!
Yes block it up. Here is my two pence worth:

In anything up to F8 I think you are better off keeping the rib moving and away from breaking waves, particularly on an average sized outboard powered rib. Modern ribs have superb power to weight ratio you really can drive the rib around the waves even if it means a long series of diagonal tracks to get home, rather than a straight line into the waves. You will be suprised at the angle you can cross the face of a wave to get over the top even when there doesn't appear any water under the down side of the rib. Downwind, use the throttle with bottle, but you will tire and start making mistakes and that could be your downfall. Change if you have other experienced crew.

F8 and above, firstly what were you thinking off? offshore you may find the waves have a pattern which you can keep moving, but close inshore with shallow water or wind against tide / current conditions you are in trouble. What ever you choose to do you may find that changing your mind not an option. There will be no chance of pulling in a sea anchor unless it has a trip line and even then leave a large amount of line in the water until it is recovered during which you are going to drift sideways. Flood the hull, do you have suficient pumps to empty the hull quickly on the average rib? or are you hoping the trick of a quick blast which worked so well in the Solent during a hot summers day will do the trick only now you are down to 8-9 knots tops and in big waves. I am against Alans idea, not because I don't think it would work but I don't think most ribs are designed for it, especially the electronics.

One early experience involved a passage from Scrabster round into the North Sea in 92. Interestingly Alan was their. A good Easterly was blowing the North Sea across the top of the Atlantic moving West causing huge breaking waves to well up and then quickly disappear only to leave a trough in its place. Alan and the other two round GB boats had stopped in calmer water about 100 yards off the malestrom. We approached in a little 5.2m rib with just 60 hp. The driver asked me what we should do, I suggested he go for it but time the bursts of throttle carefully to work our way through the waves. After a mile we were relieved to see calmer water ahead. Later he asked me why there was footprints on the front of the outboard. I pointed out that I couldn't keep my feet on the deck so held onto the backrest and put my feet on the cowling which was much nearer the horizontal.

Thankfully in this country the weather forecasts whilst may not be exact normally foretell when it's going to be serious. I don't think folk are going to be caught out like Alan well offshore but could be caught out rounding a headland or entering an estuary. The difference in waves in the entrance to Strangford Lough between a flood and ebb tide with an onshore wind needs to be seen to be believed.

Pete
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Old 08 December 2008, 14:53   #37
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I've also tried using a sea anchor on a rib on a few occasions. and there rarely seems to be quite enough windage to actually tension the line unless I could get a really good throw so the anchor ends up over the peak of the next wave.Unfortunately (it might be down to my sea anchor) it's not easy to throw what's effectively a parachute into the wind.
Thats because its not rough enough!
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Old 08 December 2008, 15:09   #38
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i have carried and used sea anchors for years on ribs and sibs but you will find that unless there is a strong wind most boats will lie across the tide beam on ,and what i have found is they work better with a hole in the middle otherwise they can be too effective and start to snatch rather than have a constant pull.,also have a tripping line attached other wise they can be hard to pull back in a big sea .one of the bst ones i had was made from a sleeve from an old pvc fishing smock with some brass eyes put in ,when i was deep sea fishing off iceland we used to use an old tractor tyre .once heard of someone using a seagull outboard as a sea anchor on a sailing yacht in a mid atlantic storm as the normal sea anchor had blown out ,
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Old 08 December 2008, 15:14   #39
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Thats because its not rough enough!
Fair comment-I've been lucky enough not to have to deploy one in bad conditions except on a yacht when the forestay parted-but obviously that's not a rib...
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Old 08 December 2008, 19:05   #40
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Timw.
Outside water pressure against inside water pressure = Zero so why should it break up unless it was a piece of crap in the first place? As I said,
etc etc

Probably not the week to mention it Alan (sausages) , but we have a saying here - "Never wrestle a pig in it's own sh1t - the audience soon can't tell one party from the other"

I was present at one incident where your flooding technique would have helped a lot (had we had the presence of mind to employ it). It does however, run contrary to every instinct a boater has (keep the water out of the boat). As a diver I know that one is often safer in (under) the water than drifting on it. Makes sense with a boat too
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