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Old 11 June 2004, 14:39   #51
Country: Ireland
Town: Dublin
Boat name: wizzard
Length: 7m +
Engine: 225 optimax
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 835
Rnli V Independant

"If the amount of money that boaters raise is so insignificant, why are you so bothered about my suggestion?"

I would have to say, I have excell spreadsheets of various years fundraising accounts, it is easy to see at a glance that boating contributions in general, are low on a year to year basis, they are very valuable to the Institution, they are not the bread and butter of the income.
I have collected more money outside shopping centres than I have pro rata at boat shows in Dublin for example.
What concerns me is people taking the suggestion to divert funds from the RNLI away to other groups seriously!
We already have the use of a free, well staffed, well covered , highly trained and equipped rescue service.
Think of it like a piece of road, a piece of infrastructure, it needs money and funding to keep it operating properly, reduce that money and put it into another project or other infrastructre and what are you left with?
You may well end up very quickly with two white elephants.
At the end of the day the RNLI exists to save lives,
They do save lives, lots of them, you already have an excellent service in place, a proven resource, peace of mind while at sea, I certainally wouldnt suggest to stop supporting them!
How does it make sense to start funding independants and let them make the mistakes, and find the faults and pitfalls, that somebody else has already done and improved upon over 180 years,
are we ever happy with anything!
As for Charitable status , imagine this didnt exist
sure then the RNLI would be even worse off financially what with tax and corporation tax and bik on vehicles etc etc

I just hope people choose for themselves and dont believe everything that they read


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Old 11 June 2004, 14:59   #52
Country: UK - England
Town: Hamble
Length: 9m +
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,317
Originally Posted by seaskimmer
i can guarentee that a fast car and a bucket of water will not put your shed fire out, in fact throwing a bucket of water into a shed on fire can make things a lot worse, ie chemicals+heat+water+paint, and all manner of other nasties can explode at any time.that's why it's best left to the proffesionals
I afraid have to disagree with you there, because many years ago when I lived in London, my neighbours shed caught fire because her barbeque flared up, me and a mate jumped into my mini (ok, the fast car bit is a lie) with a bucket of water and drove round to her house, and put it out.

With hindsight I suppose I should have let it burn out of control and phoned the firebrigade, coz I know you guys like a good blaze!!!

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt!
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Old 11 June 2004, 15:30   #53
Country: UK
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 4.8m
Engine: Mercury F60 EFI
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 89
Diseconomies of scale

It seems that the RNLI is suffering from diseconomies of scale. However, despite this, the general consensus seems to be that they do a fantastic job. So, would it not be a good idea to filter out the diseconomies of scale and increase productivity and use the money that would otherwise have been wasted to fund the poorly-funded local services. This would boost the funding and services that the 'indies' could offer, but it would not affect the RNLI funding or level of service because its money they dont see anyway!

Dirk: How many of your friends have barbeques with chemicals and paint on them?
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Old 11 June 2004, 16:16   #54
Country: UK - Wales
Town: swansea
Boat name: Too Blue
Length: 8m +
Engine: Suzuki DT225
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,791

i can guarentee that a fast car and a bucket of water will not put your shed fire out, in fact throwing a bucket of water into a shed on fire can make things a lot worse, ie chemicals+heat+water+paint, and all manner of other nasties can explode at any time.that's why it's best left to the proffesionals [/QUOTE]

And what exactly do you think the fire brigade use to put out fires? Thats right good old H2O - lots of it intelligently applied - yes even onto oil fires!!!

Most fire brigades have a few foam tenders but they are few and far between - water mist is used far more often - just watch the next time you see some firemen putting out a burning car!
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Old 11 June 2004, 17:16   #55
Country: UK - Channel Islands
Town: St Martins
Boat name: MATRIX
Make: Jeanneau Leader 805
Length: 8.05
Engine: Volvo KAD 43 Diesel
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 248
Originally Posted by John Kennett
Here are some candidates you might like to consider:

Gosport And Fareham Inshore Rescue Service

Cowes Inshore Lifeboat

Hamble Lifeboat

Ryde Inshore Rescue

Freshwater Lifeboat

Southport Offshore Rescue Trust

Severn Area Rescue Association

The Portishead Lifeboat Trust

Humber Rescue

Hornsea Rescue

East Sutherland Rescue Association

Loughor Inshore Lifeboat

Haverigg Inshore Rescue

Following on from Mike B's brilliant fundraising auction I would like to look at other ways that we can raise money, and nominate the independent life boat organisations as RIBnet's chosen group charities.

John, so what do I do in Guernsey then. If the RNLI goes from here and Alderney and Jersey we have nothing.

Now I do partly agree with you however, whatI think you should have said is...

Fund the RNLI but also look at these chaps too, they do a sterling job. If you have funded the RNLI for years maybe you would now like to help these guys or if you cant choose please try to split the donation between the two of them.

I think that all of us having a pop at the RNLI need to look at it a little more in depth. Ye maybe they do waste money but so do other business take Royal Bank of Scotland whom I worked for until recently they made £7.1m profit last year and they are throwing money away left right and centre but only because certain red tape dictates that some things have to be done a certain way to streamline the process. Imagine the profits if every money waster was found and binned, my bonus would have been huge. It goes the same for the RNLI to streamline things sometimes means to waste money. Maybe they did build and design their own boat whos to say that others around the world arent using it and have bought the design from RNLI?

Not saying that any one is wrong but sometimes there are hidden reasons for everything and it is easy to stand back an say that they waste money but harder to find out exactly where and why.

I believe in gving to all the rescue charities, even St Johns over here altho if you get picked up by an ambulance you have to pay £120 to me thats not charity that is a business as the RNLI dont ask you to cough up once they rescued you.

I think they all do a great and worthwhile job and thay all need our support. John I am sure if you were up a certaincreek without a certain instrument you ould not say to the RNLI hold on the inshore boys will be here in a minute. I think as an influencial person on the forum you should be helping to get funding for both.
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Old 11 June 2004, 19:35   #56
Country: UK - England
Town: Carterton, Oxon
Boat name: Trigger's Broom
Make: FRib
Length: 4m +
Engine: Suzuki 15hp 2/s
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 271
Send a message via Yahoo to Noddy

Well JK you certainly got a lively debate going but how the hell did we get onto shed fires?
My last words on the subject are:
In a perfect world we would have a government funded organisation that is well financed with the best equipment that money can buy run by professionals - much like the NHS(tongue firmly in cheek here)??
Unfortunately that will never happen as well we all know?
The best option I can think of is that all the organisations you have mentioned and those you have not, have some sort of affiliation to the RNLI so that they work in the same way to the same rules, have the same training and funding according to the areas they work in.
I think the title you used was the problem here - If I was a volunteer risking my life in some godforsaken place off the coast of Scotland(or anywhere else for that matter?) to rescue the idiots we have all met on the water I could well have been insulted by it.
Live every day as if its your last and one day you will be spot on!!
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Old 12 June 2004, 03:59   #57
Country: UK - England
Town: scotland
Boat name: Leviathan
Make: Phantom
Length: 8m +
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,437
That Kennett bloke will do anything to get the RIBnet ratings up
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Old 12 June 2004, 04:03   #58
Country: UK - England
Town: Brittany/Portsmouth
Boat name: Merlin
Make: Solent 6.5
Length: 6m +
Engine: 200
MMSI: soon !
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,451
Happy New Resolutions!!! : RIBbing for the craic!!!
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Old 12 June 2004, 04:29   #59
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Highlands
Boat name: Quicksilver
Make: Quicksilver
Length: 3m +
Engine: Mariner 15hp
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,771
Hmmm, interesting one this.

I am interested in the WHY. WHY do we have to rely on charity in the first palce for our maritime rescue? How did this happen?

Let us look another possible situation. Your house is on fire. You ring 999 and get through to Fire Control (equivalent of the Coast Guard - professional and funded by government and local authorities). Fire Control then contact the nearest fire station and ask them to turn out. However the fire stations are not funded by government and local authorities. They are funded by a national charity the RNFBI (Royal National Fire Brigade Institute). The firemen are all volunteers and have full time jobs. The bleeps go out and all the crewmembers available make their way to the fire station. They jump aboard the fire engine and make their way to your house. They put out the fire, then all go back to their day jobs.

Okay then, in a large city there are quite a few crews and they live near to the fire stations. However there are many country areas that are deemed 'too quiet' to have a RNFBI station. Here local communities set up charities to run their own part-time volunteer fire stations. There are several hundred 'local volunteer' fire brigades around the country and one national volunteer fire brigade.

It sounds daft, but the above is the equivalent of the situation with our national maritime rescue services.


Keith (here are some brackets for fundraising (( Hart
Small boat - BIG truck
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Old 12 June 2004, 08:47   #60
Country: UK - England
Town: Southampton
Length: no boat
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 30
I'm sure that there are good reasons why they're independent

From what I understand, the RNLI has a set of procedures which could be restrictive in some situations. Also, if the independents were swallowed up by the RNLI they would all have to use a D class or atlantic 21/75. We all know that different RIBs are good for different locations and applications. Compared to the Atlantic 75 (total 140 hp) the likes of Hamble Rescue, have a better craft in some ways- twin jet drives, higher bollard pull, more survivor capacity. Just look at the story in the latest RIB int'l about the atlantic crew having to call out the trent class because they couldn't tow a yacht in bad conditions, surely a bigger RIB (such as the P32s some of the independents use) could have done the job.

I know that I would like to see the RNLI possibly offering a partnership with these guys so that they could get trained up at the ILC in cowes, rather than being exclusive. Surely the priority is rescuing people, not where the money goes (as long as everyone has got enough to go around).

There are a few RNLI lifeboats in and around the solent area, able to respond to calls - calshot, hayling, portsmouth etc.

I think that there is a lot more variation in standards with the independents, but the probably a greater proportion of the guys driving the independent service ribs have a marine background, with a lot more years of experience. A classic example of this variation - just look at the gear the SARA or GAFIRS guys use - cheapo foam lifejackets normally kept for guests on yachts rather than the proper crewsaver kit that the RNLI use.

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