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Old 16 November 2007, 03:14   #201
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Ever heard of the reserve fire crews where some accountant/salesman answer a bleeper and slip into a volunteers fireman's uniform and drag people out of burning buildings?

Don't talk bollix... there's no such thing as "volunteer" firefighters in this country.... you are mixing them up with "retained" firefighters...and believe me the two things are different...and I should know...
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Old 16 November 2007, 03:39   #202
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As sure as eggs are eggs, with this government especially, state funding of any form of rescue (lifeboat, mountain, cave etc) would be hand in hand with massive over regulation, licensing, insurance requirements, vast head office overheads (just look at the MCA where office staff are routinely paid more than those making instant decisions in ops rooms) and a whole plethora of associated crap.

The crews themselves want to be as they are - I've heard nothing but dismay from anyone I've ever talked to, either RNLI or independant, at the mention of a state takeover.

What might help though is if the National Lottery were compelled to stop funding useless Olympic projects, pathetic attempts at art, and one-legged Polish black lesbian support groups and to STOP refusing grants to life saving organisations on the grounds of "insufficient benefit to the community".

Back to the original debate, if you give a £1 to an independant, chances are the vast majority of that £1 will go into a new boat, drysuit, lifejacket, whatever. Give a £1 to the RNLI and it may well fund an admin person, a new wing at Poole, or a manager's company car. Make your own choice!
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Old 16 November 2007, 04:17   #203
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Originally Posted by Jono View Post
Don't talk bollix... there's no such thing as "volunteer" firefighters in this country.... you are mixing them up with "retained" firefighters...and believe me the two things are different...and I should know...

Fair enough-I didn't know. Havener makes my point perfectly though.
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Old 16 November 2007, 04:36   #204
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Ever heard of the reserve fire crews where some accountant/salesman answer a bleeper and slip into a volunteers fireman's uniform and drag people out of burning buildings?
No I haven't

That would be government funded and those people are paid and trained to government standards by the fire service.

Lets leave the do gooding to the do gooders and the proper work to the profesionals.
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Old 16 November 2007, 04:43   #205
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re Havener making your point

How, do we do a work study on GAFIRS or Hamble Rescue (both orginisations I support BTW) and say oh you guys do it best.

Why don't you have a go at running the national Fire Service or the West Midlands Ambulance service. Heres a book you might want to read on dealing with an Oil refinery expolsion, you know Just in case
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Old 16 November 2007, 06:57   #206
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How, do we do a work study on GAFIRS or Hamble Rescue (both orginisations I support BTW) and say oh you guys do it best.

Why don't you have a go at running the national Fire Service or the West Midlands Ambulance service. Heres a book you might want to read on dealing with an Oil refinery expolsion, you know Just in case

I'm not talking specifics here at all .This is the point I'm talking about:-
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Originally Posted by havener
As sure as eggs are eggs, with this government especially, state funding of any form of rescue (lifeboat, mountain, cave etc) would be hand in hand with massive over regulation, licensing, insurance requirements, vast head office overheads (just look at the MCA where office staff are routinely paid more than those making instant decisions in ops rooms) and a whole plethora of associated crap.
The point is that whenever the government get involved with anything then it gets fouled up. Can you imagine RNLI strikes over poor pay like the fire service strikes or the NHS? Or the mess when local government find out how much the land the lifeboat station is situated on is actually worth and decide to use it to fund the next focus group for lesbian black polish single fathers-or the latest foulups with flooding up here....? (It hasn't flooded for ages so we don't need to clear the rivers/streams/drains/ditches. Oh. it's flooded because we didn't clear the rivers/streams/drains/ditches etc)

I'm not saying in any way shape or form that I know how to run an emergency service of any kind. I don't.
Given their record though,it's quite obvious that the upper echelons of government don't know how to either-and they get the final say in things.
The lower echelons of government are simply incompetent moneywasting idiots that are worse than any 'do-gooder'. Take for example my local council:-

They recently changed us to blue waste bags and refuse to collect black bags-only they didn't bother telling anyone til the day before the change and only supplied half the town with blue bags so we have mountains of waste in the streets which they refuse to collect. They call the scheme a success...!

The traffic calming here was designed by a 14 year old boy on work experience-and they didn't bother moving bus stops so the roads are blocked every time a bus pulls up.Then they tell us that journey times are getting longer and congestion is getting worse so we should use park and ride.



I'd far rather be pulled out of the water ten minutes earlier by an accountant than ten minutes later by a professional as a corpse because half the service had been sold off or ha been remodelled to a government efficiency study.
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Old 16 November 2007, 12:57   #207
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Don't talk bollix... there's no such thing as "volunteer" firefighters in this country.... you are mixing them up with "retained" firefighters...and believe me the two things are different...and I should know...
He is not talking bollix - there are volunteer firefighters in the UK. They do receive some token payment but only when called out - and not a "retainer" fee - like retained crew. They ain't doing it for the money.
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Old 16 November 2007, 13:01   #208
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)
and they didn't bother moving bus stops so the roads are blocked every time a bus pulls up.Then they tell us that journey times are getting longer and congestion is getting worse so we should use park and ride.
Its a conspiracy... Hadn't you noticed
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Old 16 November 2007, 13:04   #209
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I boat on an inland Loch Lomond and while this is controled by the Clyde coastguard (in rescue situations) the rescue boat on the loch is self funded by fundraising and nothing to do with RNLI. This really annoys me considering the amount of boats registered on the Loch. Why dont we all pay £10 -£20 per year to help fund this 1st class service ?

About 1 month ago I was just coming out the marina and there was a shout over the radio that someone had run aground. Lucklily the rescue boat was out but within 5 mins the boat was on the scene. GREAT service ALL these guys provide...anyway I could rabbit on and I know my opinion counts for nothing in this topic but one day the silly goverment will see sence and work out the true facts of all the services that need the support.
A significant proportion of the costs of the Luss Rescue Boat you refer to was paid for with government money - through a grant from Strathclyde police (who have the statutory duty for rescuing people on inland water).
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Old 16 November 2007, 14:41   #210
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Originally Posted by Nos4r2 View Post
I'm not talking specifics here at all .This is the point I'm talking about:-

The point is that whenever the government get involved with anything then it gets fouled up. Can you imagine RNLI strikes over poor pay like the fire service strikes or the NHS? Or the mess when local government find out how much the land the lifeboat station is situated on is actually worth and decide to use it to fund the next focus group for lesbian black polish single fathers-or the latest foulups with flooding up here....? (It hasn't flooded for ages so we don't need to clear the rivers/streams/drains/ditches. Oh. it's flooded because we didn't clear the rivers/streams/drains/ditches etc)

I'm not saying in any way shape or form that I know how to run an emergency service of any kind. I don't.
Given their record though,it's quite obvious that the upper echelons of government don't know how to either-and they get the final say in things.
The lower echelons of government are simply incompetent moneywasting idiots that are worse than any 'do-gooder'. Take for example my local council:-

They recently changed us to blue waste bags and refuse to collect black bags-only they didn't bother telling anyone til the day before the change and only supplied half the town with blue bags so we have mountains of waste in the streets which they refuse to collect. They call the scheme a success...!

The traffic calming here was designed by a 14 year old boy on work experience-and they didn't bother moving bus stops so the roads are blocked every time a bus pulls up.Then they tell us that journey times are getting longer and congestion is getting worse so we should use park and ride.



I'd far rather be pulled out of the water ten minutes earlier by an accountant than ten minutes later by a professional as a corpse because half the service had been sold off or ha been remodelled to a government efficiency study.
Time you emigrated to Hampshire Buddy? Or did something about it when's your next Local council election.
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