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Old 10 June 2004, 04:01   #11
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Originally Posted by Noddy
I am finding it hard to believe that you started this John and you must have your tongue firmly inside your cheek??
No, the subject title may be deliberately provocative but I am absolutely serious.
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You are talking Amateurs v Professionals here
No, I'm talking about poorly funded amateurs v well funded amateurs. With a few exceptions, RNLI crews are not professional rescue crews. They are dedicated, part time volunteers the same as the independent crews.
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and though the local groups may have the best will in the world, I for one know who I would rather be rescued by when the chips are really down??
Why? I would rather that my nearest lifeboat was properly funded and equipped, irrespective of which organisation runs it.
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Surely the more money the RNLI raise the better the equipment they can provide, unless you are suggesting that they put it all in their savings account?
How much more money could they possibly need? They already have more than they can spend.
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Yes, the local boys can probably provide a service if you break down but what happens in real heavy weather, or if you have a serious injury onboard(I know it is emotive but you never know)?
I would say that you are seriously underestimating the capabilities of the independent lifeboat crews.
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The number of groups that you mention and I bet there are many more?? I reckon you can compare them with helping out the Fire Brigade:
I'VE GOT A FAST CAR AND A BUCKET OF WATER?
There may indeed be some more. They probably need your help too. If you think it's easy, try phoning up the Coastguard and saying "I've got a fast RIB and a lifebelt, can I be a Declared Rescue Facility?"

John
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Old 10 June 2004, 04:10   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noddy
You are talking Amateurs v Professionals here and though the local groups may have the best will in the world, I for one know who I would rather be rescued by when the chips are really down??

Yes, the local boys can probably provide a service if you break down but what happens in real heavy weather, or if you have a serious injury onboard
I think you will find that most of the independant rescue boats are in areas where the RNLI have deemed it is not necessary for them to staion a lifeboat. Such as the River Severn and Cowes (seems strange when they build ILB's there).

With regards to your second point, if the injury is that serious then the Coasturd would probably have sent a helicopter.

(These are my opinions and nothing to do with the MCA)
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Old 10 June 2004, 04:13   #13
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I would turn the question on its head. Why are the independent services set up in the first place? Why doesn't the RNLI set up a rescue service in the Gosport and Fareham area or fund those who are providing the service? The RNLI recently put a lifeboat on the Thames, so why not the Hamble? Anyone from the RNLI who knows the answer?

Also I suspect that the vast majority of people who give to charity want to cover one sector with a single donation. So its one donation for starving children, one the furry animals and if you are lucky, one for the rescue services and the RNLI has the best chance of getting the latter.
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Old 10 June 2004, 04:14   #14
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The lifeboats and Coastguard station were put on the Thames as a result of the Martioness Accident.
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Old 10 June 2004, 04:26   #15
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Some cracking points JK

You have made some very very valid points JK.

Noddy, if these other boats and crews were not up to scratch the HMGC would not use them as a rescue resource.
They would just be ignored and the boats would never be turned out.
HMGC do use them and do activate them.
They are a welcome and vital resource.

As some have said, its not important who aids you just as long as the aid gets to you in time.

I would rather any rescue crew than a well meaning WAFI!!!

We here give them the same deal on kit as the RNLI and always will while I sit in this chair.

Having been involed in the VAS (Voluntry Aid Societies) for well over 20 years I know how they get treated by the full timers!!

I have worked along side my regualr mates in the ambulance service many times, we are needed and required.
That why the "Ambulance Reserve" now exists.

Bit like Specials by regular Plod!!!
Retains by regular Trumpton!!!

The main difference here is that all crew are volunteers.

Just all IMHO.

Regards
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Old 10 June 2004, 04:49   #16
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very intresting points

i don,t argee with not supporting the RLNI but where the money is spent
new dry suit or new office chair in pool begs the queston which would you like to fund
i must addmit the new trainning centre is well over the top and will cost loads
to build and run

and i do argee with john that lots of other service require funding take the coast gaurd they all used landrover defenders with capstans fitted then the
bean counters came in now astra estates not the same. most stations have closed down and worst of all no air cover over the channel it all flys down
from up north then has to refuel before going out
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Old 10 June 2004, 04:58   #17
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As far as I am aware the only Professionals RNLI crew are the oneís stationed on the Thames in London, all the rest are volunteers! People do seam to take the word profanely the wrong way, all it means is you are paid to do the job it dose not mean you are any good at it! Not saying that the crew are not well trained!
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Old 10 June 2004, 05:15   #18
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In 2001 the RNLI lost £36 million speculating on the stock market leaving them with £148 million operating reserve equivalent to 22 months operation. When my grandmother left the RNLI £5000 in her Will she thought it would go to a man dressed in wet weather gear heading out in a storm to save a mariners life. She did not give this money to the RNLI for them to play Ďbig businessí games.
It makes me very angry when you see this type of legalized manipulation, the RNLI fund raise using a picture of a volunteer saying that it cost £X to cloth him, £Y to buy his life jacket etc etc what they do not say is how much the rest of it costs or how much they are going to gamble on the stock market.
Donít get me wrong, I think the guys who actually do the work are great but the management of the RNLI is flawed and do not deserve our support. Any CEO who presides over a 10% loss should resign. But no doubt they are all slapping themselves on the back with big bonuses contributed by mislead little old ladies.

Iíve really got my angry head on this morning. Des
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Old 10 June 2004, 05:19   #19
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Funding...

I've heard (but I don't remember where) that the RNLI has been so successful at fund-raising that they are at risk of losing their charitable status. Whilst all organisations of that size need an infrastucture and facilities, why spend it on OTT facilities, even if it CAN (currently) afford it?

As the RNLI seem to be SOOOO good at raising cash, surely the money would be better spent by either:

(1) Establishing stations in the regions that currently don't have them, OR

(2) By affiliating with and supporting all the independants and making sure that they are all trained up and funded as part of a wider national sea rescue organisation.

Make any sense?

Dylan...
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Old 10 June 2004, 05:24   #20
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Despite the title, I don't want this to turn into an exercise in knocking the RNLI

Thay seem to be open about where the money goes: 80% on operational costs, 17% on fundraising, 3% on admin according to their web site. Their reserve of £148 million is undoubtedly a vast amount of money, but having a couple of years funding in the bank is a good position to be in. The numbers seem huge because of the scale of the operation.

On the other hand the independent lifeboat organisations don't have any reserves to guarantee their future, and don't even have sufficient capital for day to day expenditure . . .

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