Dive flag campaign

[CJL]

Erm perhaps I'm missing something but does anybody know the score about this website - Dive Flag - Diver Safety Diver Down | diveflag.co.uk

I've always know about the "A" flag but the symbol one with a scuba diver on is news to me. The red and white is apparently used in Europe and the states.

Chris

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by CJL

Erm perhaps I'm missing something but does anybody know the score about this website - Dive Flag - Diver Safety Diver Down | diveflag.co.uk

I've always know about the "A" flag but the symbol one with a scuba diver on is news to me. The red and white is apparently used in Europe and the states.

Chris

Looks like somebody trying to make a £ out of numptys. I've had enough experience of w4nkers ignoring the "A" flag over the years, I've had "professional" dive charter skippers running over our divers around the Farnes, Jet skiers using SMB's as a slalom course I don't see how yet another flag will make any difference apart from muddying the waters (no pun intended) It has no legal standing, so you'd end up having to fly 2 flags, as you'd still have to fly Alpha.

[ian parr]

I've been diving 25 years and always known about the a flag,this new flag just seems like someone trying to cash in !!!


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[CJL]

Mmmmm thought just as much!

BTW - Sorry I can't spell "campaign" - admins are welcome to change if they can!

[ian parr]

Agree with the pikey,,,you can have the biggest and brightest flag and 90% of pleasure boaters haven't a clue what it means!! Rant over!


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[jyasaki]

I've heard of jetskiers using dive flags as slalom markers.

Never seen the symbol flag before. I fly a (smaller than legal) Alpha and diver down when I dive. To be fair, where I am there is no legal requirement to fly a dive flag, and no legal meaning if you do.

jky

[jeffstevens763@g]

been diving since 1982 both sport & commercial we have to fly the A flag by law but as said before, how many boaters know what it means, not many that's why we back up with large signs for the un-educated,when sport diving we write diver down on the SMB as a back up too.
so this new sign isn't a bad idea if it gets the message across IMO

jeff

[Peter_C]

Originally Posted by jyasaki

I've heard of jetskiers using dive flags as slalom markers.

Never seen the symbol flag before. I fly a (smaller than legal) Alpha and diver down when I dive. To be fair, where I am there is no legal requirement to fly a dive flag, and no legal meaning if you do.

jky

I figure the flag is also good for letting the Coast Guard know why there is an unattended boat, and the location of the owner.

Since I have a small boat, I have a mid size flag.

[Chunk]

Had to laugh, seen the same stupid behaviours around the Alpha and Diver Down flag over the years and been scared sh*tless at times under the water watching the props pass over.

Looking at it another way, the Alpha and Diver down flags are hardly descriptive and while boaters should have the knowledge, they clearly don't and that won't change. Hadn't seen this campaign before this thread but it makes sense to me. A pictorial rep of a diver surrounded by an internationally recognised warning triangle. It can hardly be misunderstood. Maybe worth BSAC / PADI / DAN / SSI and all aother dive orgs getting together to look at this - if they won't change maybe for our safety we should?

[Trimix]

But unless the flag is flying it will be difficult to see the diagram / picture.

It still wont stop idiots.

[SPR]

no offence - but maybe if dive boat did not display the A flag when doing 30 knots...my pet hate.

2nd pet hate divers who dive from slipways without surface markers...how are we suppose to know when we approach slip...


I know you get numpties in both divers & approaching boats...


www.firstaidatsea.co.uk
www.SPRmarine.co.uk

[Ovey]

Yeah, there is a requirement for the dive boat to only fly the A-flag when divers are actually down, and to stow/hide/remove it when transiting. The majority that I have dived with do this.

The A-flag is the worldwide legislated flag to mean " I have a diver down", and should be used worldwide as such. Unfortunately the red/white scuba flag is used predominantly in the US and is consequently taken to be the "diver down" flag by lots of other countries (where Americans go on holiday), often at the expense of the A flag.

Either flag should be stayed clear of, at low speed. Maybe a warning sign at marinas, slipways or water-access points would help educate those with little or no knowledge but enough money to buy watercraft?

[Chunk]

SPR, you're right. I've left sites with the A flag still flying 😁. I've also approached a bunch of ribs near known dive sites with no A flags / D Down flying and been told to "F off, can't you see we've got divers in the water".

Wasn't tying to target one group or another in my earlier post - anyone can be numpty in the right circumstances...

[SPR]

is a red triangle international recognise? or just UK Highway Code?


www.firstaidatsea.co.uk
www.SPRmarine.co.uk

[Ovey]

Not sure. It's used in certain countries in Europe, if not all, and some in Africa/Asia too. Can't say for sure about the rest of the world though as each country has it's own highway code. Why's that?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Chunk

A pictorial rep of a diver surrounded by an internationally recognised warning triangle.

unless to actually see what it says you have to go closer to read it...

Presumably the alphanumeric flags were developed to be more readable at a distance than just holding up the letters?

[Ovey]

Originally Posted by Poly

Presumably the alphanumeric flags were developed to be more readable at a distance than just holding up the letters?

Correct. The International Code of Signals were derived in 1969 from the numerous countries' independent rules in order to give one code to follow no matter which seaway you were on. The International Maritime Signal Flags fall under this ICS, and the flags were seen as being sufficiently large and bright enough to convey the message required.

The ICS, IMSF and IALA buoyage system have been taken as the international legislation for safe passage on the seas, with the International Rule of the Road making reference to all of these. (Interestingly the US has another slight deviation from IALA, as it does with the A flag/scuba flag).

Wiki'd for ease, rather than finding the full sites:

International Code of Signals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

International maritime signal flags - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Chunk]

Originally Posted by Poly

unless to actually see what it says you have to go closer to read it...

Presumably the alphanumeric flags were developed to be more readable at a distance than just holding up the letters?

Yes, but the argument becomes a wee bit circular. The alphanumeric flags are the best solution so long as they are understood by all. In the UK my gut feel is that the majority of leisure boaters don't understand them.

I'm not saying I'm in favour or against the design, just that I think what we have today doesn't work and it may be time to look at alternatives.

As my ol' pappy used to say "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got"

[Ovey]

Originally Posted by Ovey

Maybe a warning sign at marinas, slipways or water-access points would help educate those with little or no knowledge but enough money to buy watercraft?

You're right. As I said above, education is the key!

[JamesF]

There's already a flag with a well defined meaning, and it's easier to see than a thin black line surrounded by three thin red lines.

I'm not convinced it has any advantage over, say, flying both the correct flag and a sheet of plywood with "Divers. Keep well clear" painted on it in eighteen inch lettering.