Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords? What do you think?

[kerny]

Originally Posted by lakelandterrier

My thought process was to have the KC permanently attached to the LJ so you could not forget to attach it to yourself - it would already be there, but I can see some problems with that.

If the default was the KC is clipped to your LJ as standard, you have to consciously attach it to the switch before starting. If the default is clip it to the switch as a seperate bit of kit it's easier to forget to attach it to yourself as a seperate task.

If the KC lives on my LJ, and not the switch I can't forget to connect it before starting the engine.

Probably not expressing this very well!

What you are saying makes a lot of sense its just the position for me as I have stated earlier.

Maybe dry suit and salopette manufactures could also attach D rings on the legs stitched just above the knee for the same purpose.

At least while we are discussing ideas of how to wear KC's its promoting the importance of using them.

[kerny]

Originally Posted by Leapy

We clip to the crutch strap of the LJ as we find wrapping the cord around your leg significantly limits the cord effective length and your freedom of movement. I've killed the engine a couple of times just standing up to look around.

You must be a lanky bu**er then.

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by kerny

You must be a lanky bu**er then.

Lanky. Aye ...

[GWawol]

Originally Posted by frankc

It is very common for a twist grip throttle to back off to low speed if you let go of it with the motor in operation. With a remote throttle, I am not sure if this is built into the assembly.

Whatever the case, you can legislate until you are blue in the face, but there will continue to be accidents.

I have run outboards for about 58 years, and kill switches have not been installed on motors for that many years. Today we are swamped with people having good intentions but not considering just what the effect of legislation costs. Reality check, you cannot prevent people from having accidents. Every time some bad incident happens, only the foolish would propose legislation on the grounds that it may be helpful. They avoid doing a cost study and insist on signing over their freedoms to a governing body who is primarily interested in making money from the laws. They also do not care what the costs are for people trying to meet the law.

I believe this proposal is for England, and living in the US, it will not affect me thank goodness. I will terminate my subscription to this site at this time. Sorry for you folks.

Yes Frank, it is for England because it's about an English Event that we all care about .... It seems your 58 yrs outboard usage have left you with a lot still to learn, so in respect of your termination of this forum - Don't let us keep you !

[azzurro]

Originally Posted by JamesF

Of course, it's always good to think "can I make this better" — that's half of what engineers are for! I was just suggesting in response to HughN's post that sufficient consensus is going to be difficult to achieve.

Things might have got a bit mixed up because you and paddlers posted while I was tweaking my wording, but no matter .



I see the statistical point you're trying to make, but when looking at potential nation-wide regulations, you need to look at nation-wide statistics, which I assume HughN was doing.

There wouldn't be any point in normalising risk by proportion of the dog-, ladder-, bathtub- or boat-owning population in this case as far as I can make out. If 50% of motorcycle-bungee-jump-canasta players are injured by their sport, but only two people have ever tried motorcycle-bungee-jump-canasta, it's not worth the expense of legislating against their bizarre choice of leisure activity. Conversely, seat-belt legislation is worthwhile because of the number of people who drive or are passengers in cars, even if only a tiny fraction per year are hurt in crashes. Powerboat ownership is probably closer to the motorcycle-bungee-jump-canasta end of the spectrum than it is to the road travel end.

Bad comparison. We do not talk about getting injured, but about killing someone else.
That's why smoking in buildings is not allowed.
As a matter of fact I do not care about snow skiing laws as I never go to the mountains. But I do go to the sea and swim. So I am potentially a victim of forgetting kill cords.
That is what I am trying to explain: boaters are not only prosecuted by these laws, but also protected!

[JamesF]

True, but I believe the point is still valid. The number of people protected by such laws would be relatively small.

And that's assuming they'd be effective anyway, which is itself highly dubious.

[Steve_B]

Despite the weather today (Gale6/7) i was down on our RIB and took these pictures.

Pic 1, our primary Killcord attached to the dog collar
Pic 2, When leaving the boat for a short period you can leave comfortably on the leg
Pic 3, Or secure collar around the throttle(s), so that it is in your face when you want to be under way.
The use of the collar around the leg and clipping the KC to it, retains the original length. I can move to either side of our wide beam RIB with ease and not trigger the engines to cut out. By having a temporary mooring line near the consol, it is easy to come along side single handed.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by 250kts

Despite the weather today (Gale6/7) i was down on our RIB and took these pictures.

Pic 1, our primary Killcord attached to the dog collar
Pic 2, When leaving the boat for a short period you can leave comfortably on the leg
Pic 3, Or secure collar around the throttle(s), so that it is in your face when you want to be under way.
The use of the collar around the leg and clipping the KC to it, retains the original length. I can move to either side of our wide beam RIB with ease and not trigger the engines to cut out. By having a temporary mooring line near the consol, it is easy to come along side single handed.

I really like the dog collar idea-it looks far less likely to slip on wet waterproofs.

[HUMBER P4VWL]

Legislate and idiots will just ignore anyway. Educate and not only will the ignorant learn and act, but it'll save a whole load of hassle, annoyance and cost for the masses.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

I really like the dog collar idea-it looks far less likely to slip on wet waterproofs.

Yes, I'll be getting one of those. My mousehounds will be bricking it, waiting for the new owner

I used to have a velcro strip glued at the clip end of my killcord, and the corresponding strip was glued to the console high above the throttle and wheel. It meant that I could operate alongside pontoons etc without it but not miss the damn thing underway.

[sinner]

Part of most "civilized" societies problem is trying to legislate everything; every mishap and accident. You can change ignorant with education, but you can't change stupid. People need to be held accountable for their actions, without putting undue restrictions, or trying to legislate common sense to everyone else.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by sinner

Part of most "civilized" societies problem is trying to legislate everything; every mishap and accident. You can change ignorant with education, but you can't change stupid. People need to be held accountable for their actions, without putting undue restrictions, or trying to legislate common sense to everyone else.

We've already got enough laws in place to prosecute anyway, they just need to be applied.

[sinner]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

We've already got enough laws in place to prosecute anyway, they just need to be applied.

Absolutely!

[HUMBER P4VWL]

Originally Posted by willk

It's shocking the eejits you find getting handed the best of kit with without so much as the once over. Shocking....

Agreed. It's the same as mid life crisis idiots on big motorbikes. You can pass all the tests but aren ready to open up a 1000cc monster in anger. Just like you can pass a "boat" test, docking, launching and reversing, but still don't have the experience to open her in properly in a sea.

[spartacus]

Education, not regulation. I'm dealing with enough red tape as it is.

I used to store a spare killcord on board. From now on I'll hand it over to who-ever else is on board with instructions on operating the engine.

[thomas]

Does Amy one think compulsory insurance is important?

[harryesd]

Originally Posted by thomas

Does Amy one think compulsory insurance is important?

YES, cos accidents happen... you have a duty of care to your passengers etc, etc.

I once had a lone diver surface right infront of me, he had entered from the rocky shore, drift dived to what he thought was 25mtrs from shore (was close to 100mtrs) with no SMB.
I gave him a lift closser in, but he still could not see he was doing anything wrong..Bet your bottom dollar i would of been at fault if he surfaced under me.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Actually ASKING for legislation to be put in place is like a turkey voting for christmas.

I'm with you on that one!

[QUOTE=derdle;536127]

Originally Posted by harryesd

You where it under your dry suit. I assume you have got other clothes on underneath maybe even a belt. I didn't think going commando is a prerequisite of wearing a dry suit. it only needs to be the size of a car remote. on a bit of Velcro elastic.

Seriously?

Originally Posted by derdle

Skin is conductive! thats why you don't stick your fingers in plug sockets.

a simple 9 volt current running between two contacts on an immobilizer the size of a car fob that you fit with Velcro elastic to a body part wrist arm leg ankle or Nose your choice you fit before you get on the boat and before dress up in what ever attire takes your fancy and it stays there all day you cant forget to connect it and as it doesn't get in the way it doesn't need to be bypassed. Anyway thats for the boffins work out. We have had immobilizers on cars since forever and now even key-less entry and start yet on a marine engine that can cost more than a good car we have a toggle switch tied to a piece of curly red wire.


in regards to the training a basic course layout
would not require any specific training other than real life experience that all members already have. Every one is moaning about the costs of compulsory training, Id rather my money went to a good cause. You could look at it as an insurance policy then at least the idiots on the water would collectively be paying for there rescue/recovery.

What about water-sports users? If I'm helming in my wetsuit and want to water ski I have to remove some electrical device and attach it to another driver every-time we want to swap? It's over complicated and pointless - Kill cords work and with education we can hopefully reduce the number of accidents.

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Far simpler to have a kill cord and use it. It works. Any bollocks excuse for not using it is just that-utter bollocks.

Originally Posted by lakelandterrier

My thought process was to have the KC permanently attached to the LJ so you could not forget to attach it to yourself - it would already be there, but I can see some problems with that.

If the default was the KC is clipped to your LJ as standard, you have to consciously attach it to the switch before starting. If the default is clip it to the switch as a seperate bit of kit it's easier to forget to attach it to yourself as a seperate task.

If the KC lives on my LJ, and not the switch I can't forget to connect it before starting the engine.

Probably not expressing this very well!

Great if you only have a regular crew that all have a kill cord, what do you do if you're coming alongside short handed? Have to clip you cord back on to restart the engine every time you move away from the throttle?

Originally Posted by GWawol

Yes Frank, it is for England because it's about an English Event that we all care about .... It seems your 58 yrs outboard usage have left you with a lot still to learn, so in respect of your termination of this forum - Don't let us keep you !

For someone's first post I would suggest that's a bit strong, maybe you should consider your membership if you want to act like that!

[harryesd]

[QUOTE=Cookee;536590]I'm with you on that one!

Originally Posted by derdle

Seriously?



What about water-sports users? If I'm helming in my wetsuit and want to water ski I have to remove some electrical device and attach it to another driver every-time we want to swap? It's over complicated and pointless - Kill cords work and with education we can hopefully reduce the number of accidents.







Great if you only have a regular crew that all have a kill cord, what do you do if you're coming alongside short handed? Have to clip you cord back on to restart the engine every time you move away from the throttle?



For someone's first post I would suggest that's a bit strong, maybe you should consider your membership if you want to act like that!

Originally Posted by harryesd

You where it under your dry suit. I assume you have got other clothes on underneath maybe even a belt. I didn't think going commando is a prerequisite of wearing a dry suit. it only needs to be the size of a car remote. on a bit of Velcro elastic.

I didnt quote the above, somehow the postings are back to front ? It was an answer i was given on asking how it would work ?

[Cookee]

[QUOTE=harryesd;536591]

Originally Posted by Cookee

I'm with you on that one!



Originally Posted by harryesd

You where it under your dry suit. I assume you have got other clothes on underneath maybe even a belt. I didn't think going commando is a prerequisite of wearing a dry suit. it only needs to be the size of a car remote. on a bit of Velcro elastic.

I didnt quote the above, somehow the postings are back to front ? It was an answer i was given on asking how it would work ?

I think Derdle quoted you and I separated them by mistake, sorry for any confusion!