Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords? What do you think?

[derdle]

JamesF

If I'm honest so am I, I made my string a bit longer and all is good. Im just throwing ideas out there for the members of this forum that seem to have such a problem.

[paddlers]

If the length or strength or where to fasten the kill cord is an issue just buy a surfboard leash and velcro the bloody thing to your ankle !! I guarantee it wont snap but the flimsy little clip on the end might...

[azzurro]

Originally Posted by HughN

Whilst noting that any accidental death is tragic, HMS stated "19 fatalities in 4 years". This will be less than 19 distinct incidents because some of these involved incidents with more than one fatality, but lets go for a rate of 5 fatalities a year and make a comparison.

In 2010:

* 3 people died as a result of dog bites
* 7 people died as a result of being bitten by 'other mammals'
* 3 people died as a result of falling into swimming pools
* 5 people died as a result of accidental suffocation in bed
* 17 people died as a result of contact with heat or hot substances (including barbecues, I assume)
* 5 people died as a result of contact with wasps, hornets or bees
* 6 people died due to lack of food.
* 9 people died as a result of falling from cliffs
* 6 women died as a result of a fall from a ladder
* 29 people died after drowning in the bath.

Shall we introduce mandatory training for barbecues at the point of sale, classes for bed-making and fence in all swimming-pools and cliffs?

We oughtn't limit our altruism by familiarity with Ribs: lets include all vessels, including sailing boats - after all, they can be large, move quickly, have limited capabilities for changing of direction/speed and generally go out in windy conditions. They don't, for instance, slice in front of oil tankers...

Would it be flawed to suggest that anyone over 35 tends to be more capable of assessing risk than people under 35 who have generally been surrounded by Health and Safety?

In my little village, last 5 years.

* 0 people died as a result of dog bites
* 0 people died as a result of being bitten by 'other mammals'
* 0 people died as a result of falling into swimming pools
* 0 people died as a result of accidental suffocation in bed
* 0 people died as a result of contact with heat or hot substances (including barbecues, I assume)
* 0 people died as a result of contact with wasps, hornets or bees
* 0 people died due to lack of food.
* 0 women died as a result of a fall from a ladder
* 0 people died after drowning in the bath.

And
* 1 fifteen years old boy died as a result of falling from cliffs (dive jumping)
* 1 nineteen years old boy died because of no kill cord.

As a matter of fact, you will not find these accidents in Madrid, no sea 300 km around.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by JamesF

The only common ground I can really see here is that people want to be safe, and just over three quarters don't want to be forced into mandatory licenses and console placards (I'm with them).

Beyond that, some want sprung throttles, some want active-sensing wireless killcords, some want passive-sensing wireless killcords.

Personally, I'm entirely happy with the Mercury-style piece of reinforced string and a guarded toggle switch.

Me too.

I prefer the Mercury setup to any other. it's simple, effective and doesn't seem to go wrong. All it relies on if I go overboard is there being a spare killcord onboard for someone to come and pick me up.

I much prefer the physical 'feel' of knowing the cord is there as well. I don't like the idea of shoving an RFID/battery operated tag in my pocket as I don't know if I've dropped it/the batteries have died etc.

[JamesF]

If I'm honest so am I, I made my string a bit longer and all is good. Im just throwing ideas out there for the members of this forum that seem to have such a problem

Of course, it's always good to think "can I make this better" — that's half of what engineers are for! I was just suggesting in response to HughN's post that sufficient consensus is going to be difficult to achieve.

Things might have got a bit mixed up because you and paddlers posted while I was tweaking my wording, but no matter .

In my little village, last 5 years.

I see the statistical point you're trying to make, but when looking at potential nation-wide regulations, you need to look at nation-wide statistics, which I assume HughN was doing.

There wouldn't be any point in normalising risk by proportion of the dog-, ladder-, bathtub- or boat-owning population in this case as far as I can make out. If 50% of motorcycle-bungee-jump-canasta players are injured by their sport, but only two people have ever tried motorcycle-bungee-jump-canasta, it's not worth the expense of legislating against their bizarre choice of leisure activity. Conversely, seat-belt legislation is worthwhile because of the number of people who drive or are passengers in cars, even if only a tiny fraction per year are hurt in crashes. Powerboat ownership is probably closer to the motorcycle-bungee-jump-canasta end of the spectrum than it is to the road travel end.

[harryesd]

[QUOTE=derdle;536127]

Originally Posted by harryesd

You where it under your dry suit. I assume you have got other clothes on underneath maybe even a belt. I didn't think going commando is a prerequisite of wearing a dry suit. it only needs to be the size of a car remote. on a bit of Velcro elastic.

But i like going commando !!!

Yes i see your thinking now.
Still like the cord round my leg though.

[Kraken999]

I should hang fire on writing to your MP (For all the good that does despite visiting mine and personally handing over a letter last year I didn't even get the courtesy of a reply). Keep your powder dry.

Just because one individual calls for regulation doesn't mean it'll happen. Even if it was considered it's a long old process. Wait until it's muted and the required consultation starts by legislators and I think you'll find the RYA would be anti regulation.

http://www.rya.org.uk/aboutus/whatwe...urRights2.aspx

The below passage sums it up.

Resist national legislation that may adversely affect any aspect of recreational boating and navigational safety, or that it believes to be disproportionate, ineffective or unenforceable.

Whilst I accept they're not everyone's cup of tea. They do have clout in the right places and are recognised by Government as the representative body.

[derdle]

[QUOTE=harryesd;536181]

Originally Posted by derdle

But i like going commando !!!

Yes i see your thinking now.
Still like the cord round my leg though.

How about going commando with the immobilizer Velcro'd to your wedding tackle and a tube of conductive gell smeared on for good measure.

I bet you'd be jumping overboard every 30sec's

[Kraken999]

Surely Power Boat & Rib Magazine or whoever it is that is taking it upon themselves to call for regulation will take notice of the majority view and moderate their calls accordingly. Wouldn't they?

[JamesF]

Depends, I suppose. Is the proprietor the sort of person who normally takes notice of such things, or is he the type to get a pollinating insect lodged in his headgear?

[harryesd]

[QUOTE=derdle;536194]

Originally Posted by harryesd

How about going commando with the immobilizer Velcro'd to your wedding tackle and a tube of conductive gell smeared on for good measure.

I bet you'd be jumping overboard every 30sec's

Toooooooooooooooo much

[markset]

Buyer beware, you own a monster your bound to get bit. A 26' Rib with 300 hp is a high performance boat. I bet this boat accelerates to 30mph in about 5 seconds. It’s a wonder more people aren’t getting hurt.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by GeorgeR

What about the seats that Cobra use? If he had been on a jockey seat he is far less likely to have fallen out.

well I am sure as well as focussing on the kill cord the MAIB will consider the root cause for the 'ejection' and how the seating impacted on it. I'm quite open minded to the possibility that the Cobra bolster type arrangement is actually no less secure than jockey seats.

Originally Posted by longjohn

All this talk of spring loaded hand or foot throttles as alternatives to kill cords makes we wonder how many people on this site have actually driven a rib!!
It seems to me this would be a sure fire way to eject all the crew, on every outing, with the jerky stop-start progress that would inevitably result from such a throttle arrangement!

Well with normal seating arrangements on a rib a foot throttle won't work - but I remain sceptical that a suitably damped, sprung throttle would not work - and I guess the spring and some clever engineering could engage neutral.

Originally Posted by JamesF

Depends, I suppose. Is the proprietor the sort of person who normally takes notice of such things, or is he the type to get a pollinating insect lodged in his headgear?

He's never been big on reader feedback in the past!

[markset]

My experience tells me some how the throttle inadvertently got bumped. Once you put the spurs to a boat like this holding on becomes a challenge to say the least.

[Xk59D]

i just seen this email in my inbox.

IMHO legislation is not the answer to this problem. i hold my hands up i have on occasion forgot to hook my killcord round my leg whilst out. i normally spot it after 5-10 mins but that maybe enough!

common sense and education is the key imo.

i was sorry to read/see the loss of life earlier this week, my condolences are with the family.

cheers

[thomas]

Originally Posted by derdle

I'm starting to wonder if i should have voted for legislation after reading the post's on this site from so called experienced members justifying there reasons for not using kill chords, these are the people that need the education and training.

SH1T happens all day every day in every industry and you should do what you can to prevent it. When you get thrown out of your boat, pass out, have a heart attack or whatever and get chopped up because you feel that you are too experienced to use a basic safety device then thats your choice. But it isn't my choice if that boat runs into mine or runs up the beach and cuts up my wife and kids that may we swimming.
If you don't want to where a kill chord buy a field, dig a moat, fill it with water and drive round it all day long with your kill chord flapping in the wind but if you don't wear one when out in public don't try and justify it or your just as bad as the asshole that over takes on a blind bend and runs head on into a mother and kids.

Nobody wants to live in a nanny state so act responsibly to prevent it.

THATS MY RANT OVER

Finally someone talking sense.

All this talk of alternative systems is plain wrong, kill cords work now and work well, any other hairbrained ideas, how ever feasible, would not only take ages to implement, would not work on all craft and need addition sensors and equipment.

My Yamaha throttle is sprung at the top end, if you let go from full beans it backs off on it's own, not sure that the Merc did the same.

[PeterM]

I'm sure I've driven a rib with a sprung hand throttle....I just can't recall what it was!..I've a feeling it may have been Grimalkin?

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by PeterM

I'm sure I've driven a rib with a sprung hand throttle....I just can't recall what it was!..I've a feeling it may have been Grimalkin?

My Yam backs off on it's own as well, but it'd be half a mile away and it wouldn't come out of gear.
It's not a sprung throttle though,and crucially it won't go into neutral on its own. It's just the return spring on the carb slowly acting on it so it'll eventually carry on in gear at tickover.

It's not a design feature on 703 controls.

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

My Yam backs off on it's own as well, but it'd be half a mile away

So unless you were doing a tight turn as you left the boat and you didn't have the kill cord on/working it wouldn't manage to come back and hit you...........

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by PeterM

So unless you were doing a tight turn as you left the boat and you didn't have the kill cord on/working it wouldn't manage to come back and hit you...........

Exactly my point.

As far as I'm aware and having dismantled a lot of OEM control boxes, a sprung throttle isn't an OEM option. There are no return springs in Yamaha, Mercury, Mariner, Johnrude or Suzuki that I recall. Never pulled a Honda or a BRP control box apart though, so if someone knows better feel free to correct me.

Again though, for a sprung throttle to work,it'd have to pull the lever right back to neutral and over the neutral detent.

Far simpler to have a kill cord and use it. It works. Any bollocks excuse for not using it is just that-utter bollocks.