View Poll Results: Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance?
Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance 130 22.15%
Keep the current unregulated system with an emphasis on education 457 77.85%
Voters: 587. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09 May 2013, 06:30   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boycey View Post
I was a pilot for 20 years. It's actaully surprisingly easy to fly and land an aeroplane, yet you must have a licence, insurance and a medical, even to fly a microlight. That's because flying an aircraft is one very small part of being a competent pilot. Being a pilot is understanding safety, weather, air traffic, VHF procedures, landing and approach procedures, rights of way etc etc.

Boating is just as complex as I have discovered. I now have an RYA advanced powerboat qualification.
Why is it OK on any level, to allow a completely unqualified, inexperienced and ignorant individual to take to the seas in a potentially lethal, high-speed water craft?
Yes, compulsory licencing. I have one so why shouldn't everyone?
"Freedom" I hear you cry. Bollocks to that, I want the freedom to go to sea in my boat without putting my own family at risk by being surrouned by incomopetent idiots..

Good training is great fun, very rewarding and will possibly save your life one day.

GO AND GET TRAINED OR STAY OUT OF MY WAY
As a pilot too I couldn't agree more, loads of the disciplines cross straight over, its not about the piece of paper its about competence.
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:31   #82
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One point relating to last w/e.... I noticed that the steering system looked the same as my RIB. If it is, then once the wheel is let go of, then the boat will go in that direction until it stops.. The rib was circling so that makes me think that the driver was mucking about cornering when they were flipped from the boat. On occasions like that, before cornering hard, I ALWAYS tell the passengers were are going to turn tight and to hold on extra tight as the G Force gets amplified when the boat bounces on a wave.....
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:34   #83
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I have PB2 and am a Yacht Master, with a lot of experience. I know of other Yacht masters, PB2 ticket holders, whom are still incompetent- The course/qualification does not necessarily make them safe... THAT IS A BIG PROBLEM and why compulsory licensing would not necessarily work. Examiners need to raise the standards and not pass everyone.
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:37   #84
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No question of a kill cords value

I've been the proud owner of a 8.5 metre Ribcraft with 2 x 200 Suzuki's for just over a year now. I have a kill cord and can honestly say I never wear it.

The only time I've been approached by any authorities was a Police rib during Cowes week and the only comment he made was attach the kill cord, it could save a life. I all but ignored him.

There have been two occasions since my ownership where I would say I put myself and others at risk - mildly, but at risk. On both occasions I should have been wearing my kill cord in case the worst did happen. I didn't and still don't.

Having seen (via the news) the incident in Padstow, I will NEVER drive the boat again without attaching the kill cord to me. I feel stupid for not doing so now I've seen such a sad waste of life and family torn apart. A kill cord would almost certainly have prevented that. I should have respected the craft I'm lucky to own a long time ago.

So should this be law - absolutely. Should it apply to smaller craft/tenders etc; probably, but lets deal with the biggest dangers first. In any event, we as a community should not be debating this. We should be in support of mandatory kill cord use where fitted, encourage fitting (within a reasonable multi year time frame) to X size boats without them and damn well make it bad form amongst our peers to not wear one; regardless of any law passing to mandate.

Event's in Padstow would have been prevented with a kill cord. How can we do anything other than be in support of change to stop that happening again. I am Level 2 certificated and I'm ashamed its taken this event to make me realise their importance.
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:40   #85
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My ride-on mower has a "kill switch" under the seat so if you get off it, the engine stops- something similar could work on boats....???
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:43   #86
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harryesd - agreed,

Jezza . . . yes I do. And yes I wear it around my leg, as per my training advice years ago. Unfortunately the design of my boat means I have to spread my legs a bit . . . oooh er, or stand or sit and move about so it is very easy to move your leg back and pop! Everyone goes flying forward! My previous boat lent itself to having a kill chord on at all times whereas this one does not. You could argue that for that reason a kill chord on this boat is more a necessity and I actually agree. But, fortunately when I do wear the kill chord I am usually solo or with only a couple of people well seated and secure so when it does kill it is a frustration not an accident. It is the days when I have standing room only type trips where it becomes just as dangerous to have one than it is not too! Again you could then argue is going out on the boat in this configuration dangerous in itself. Probably, as is driving in my car to the marina but hey we still do it.

If we all employed the adage, there are those that have and those that will, boat safety would be so much better and also self regulated. Utopia is hard to achieve sadly.
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:44   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uk_matt View Post
I've been the proud owner of a 8.5 metre Ribcraft with 2 x 200 Suzuki's for just over a year now. I have a kill cord and can honestly say I never wear it.

The only time I've been approached by any authorities was a Police rib during Cowes week and the only comment he made was attach the kill cord, it could save a life. I all but ignored him.

There have been two occasions since my ownership where I would say I put myself and others at risk - mildly, but at risk. On both occasions I should have been wearing my kill cord in case the worst did happen. I didn't and still don't.

Having seen (via the news) the incident in Padstow, I will NEVER drive the boat again without attaching the kill cord to me. I feel stupid for not doing so now I've seen such a sad waste of life and family torn apart. A kill cord would almost certainly have prevented that. I should have respected the craft I'm lucky to own a long time ago.

So should this be law - absolutely. Should it apply to smaller craft/tenders etc; probably, but lets deal with the biggest dangers first. In any event, we as a community should not be debating this. We should be in support of mandatory kill cord use where fitted, encourage fitting (within a reasonable multi year time frame) to X size boats without them and damn well make it bad form amongst our peers to not wear one; regardless of any law passing to mandate.

Event's in Padstow would have been prevented with a kill cord. How can we do anything other than be in support of change to stop that happening again. I am Level 2 certificated and I'm ashamed its taken this event to make me realise their importance.
Please don't take this as ad hominem. It's not meant that way. Apply it to others who have behaved like you did, from your own perspective now.

So, what you're saying is that a law you're unlikely to hear about will change attitudes of those completely ignorant to the dangers and who in many cases just don't care enough or are incapable of even thinking the process through?


The accident in Padstow will do far more to publicise the use of killcords than any law or legislated training ever will.
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:45   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGBARKER1 View Post
My ride-on mower has a "kill switch" under the seat so if you get off it, the engine stops- something similar could work on boats....???
Reckon you can stay in the seat permanently? Or on the same bit of deck?
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:48   #89
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Licensing and regulating RIB operators

Please excuse my ignorance as I am not familiar with operating laws and licensing in the UK.

Can only share what the law requires and dictates in South Africa here on the dark continent.

To operate a power driven leisure vessel (in different categories) requires formal training, examinations and an appropriate license. RIB's included as they are also power driven vessels.

For leisure and sport fishing vessels smaller than 9 meters size there are 3 categories of skippers licenses:

1. Category R: Inland waters (lakes, dams, estuaries and harbours). The license holder may not proceed to sea with his vessel.

2. Category C: Same as category R but also allowed to venture out to sea for a distance up to 15 nautical miles.

3. Category B: Permitted to go out to sea for 40 nautical miles.

The category C & B license can after appropriate training, examinations and experience be endorsed to include:

4. Surf (beach) launching.

5. Certified to conduct dive launches.

6. A night rating.

Apart from skipper's licenses required, all boats must also be registered at an approved South African Maritime Safety Authority (SAMSA) agency which will issue it a registration number and survey its sea-worthiness and category classification. Sea-worthy's must be renewed yearly.

Categories of sea-worthiness considered and awarded are:

7. Category R: Same restrictions as for inland skippers license above (confined water).

8. Category D: Single engine vessel limited to 5 nautical miles off-shore.

9. Category C: Twin engine vessel limited to 15 nautical miles off-shore.

10. Category B: Twin engine vessel limited to 40 nautical miles off-shore.

Category C and B will be distinguished by the requirements of safety equipment on board, and a vessel going further than 15 nautical miles must be equipped with a 25 Watt VHF radio. Up to 15 nm requires only a 29 Mhz marine band radio but soon to be phased out and only VHF used).

All vessels require a radio station license which must be renewed yearly, and to operate on VHF marine channels requires operators training and a license.

To keep all validated and in time requires a lot of burocracy, red tape, and in the end frustration and money.

We are also supposed to wear a kill switch lanyard at all times but like when out fishing it is not always practical. For surf launches wearing the kill switch lanyard and lifejackets are mandatory.

These safety and nautical requirements are policed and inspected by the SA Police water wing.

I was always sure that in the UK the minimum requirements would be exactly the same?
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:49   #90
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Originally Posted by biffer View Post
Who will do this training. The RYA will be rubbing there hands together. While I do agree to educate I'm not sure the RYA should be given complete control of the helm. I have chosen not to renew my commercial ticket. When they send me a reminder saying I need to do yet another little course and I can do it on line and take it as many times as I like I realise that they only want your money. Maybe the people who build and sell these boats have a moral duty to make sure the buyer have what it takes to drive it. Perhaps every decent boater has a duty to police the water. I don't know
I do think the builders and sellers of boats should be required to do more.

I have recently turned to Ribbing. I have roughly 50 years of experience on the water from dinghy's, small ski boats, large yachts etc. First qualification was boat handling in the Royal Navy, then various shore side RYA courses and also an IRCC that covers just about everything.

We had a pretty powerful 16' ski boat when we were in our 20's before turning to sailing. This year when we sold the yacht and bought a 6m RIB I was determined to make sure I had some suitable training and equally important wanted my wife, son & girlfriend to come on the training.

Piranha RIBs suggested that one of their team 'Dog' Phillips a very experienced off-shore/security RIB instructor took us out for the day with the emphasis on safety and proper handling of a high speed RIB.

This has multiple benefits to us as a family.
- Highlighted to my 26yr old son the dangers of a RIB and the proper way to drive it and the security aspects ie kill cord etc
- Re-emphasised to me I still had a lot to learn and re-remember and never to take short cuts on safety.

Two examples of things I had forgotten:
1. Do a right hand turn when stopping at speed to avoid the wash coming over the back.
2. If someone goes over the side, TURN THE BOAT TOWARDS THEM SO THAT THE ENGINE MOVES AWAY FROM THE PERSON IN THE WATER. Most peoples natural instinct is to turn away from the person which is obviosuly wrong.

As well as having a kill cord attached we also keep a spare kill cord on board. What happens if the driver goes overboard and either in recovery the kill cord gets lost or there is a strong tide and the boat has drifted some distance away from the driver without a means of starting the engine one cannot get back to them.

The problem is that one's natural instinct is it will not happen to me; rather than think it will happen to me so what can I do to mitigate the situation.

Compulsory Licensing does not make one a better sailor/Ribber - Proper education is the only way.
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