View Poll Results: Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance?
Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance 130 22.15%
Keep the current unregulated system with an emphasis on education 457 77.85%
Voters: 587. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09 May 2013, 05:57   #71
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If it saves lives (especially children's) then compulsory Training and Licensing should be adopted.
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Old 09 May 2013, 05:57   #72
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Who will do this training. The RYA will be rubbing there hands together. While I do agree to educate I'm not sure the RYA should be given complete control of the helm. I have chosen not to renew my commercial ticket. When they send me a reminder saying I need to do yet another little course and I can do it on line and take it as many times as I like I realise that they only want your money. Maybe the people who build and sell these boats have a moral duty to make sure the buyer have what it takes to drive it. Perhaps every decent boater has a duty to police the water. I don't know
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:00   #73
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Originally Posted by teamplonker View Post
It should be compulsory for everyone to have some sort of minimum training before going on the water,maybe PB level 2 or similar.
I think everyone who has spent anytime on our coastline will have ta story to tell about some inexperienced boater getting in to trouble.
Licensing and comp training can't come soon enoug.
Coming from someone who 'had a word with the harbour masters' in Bristol basin so you could nail about and speed test your boat, and filmed your child at the helm solo I think maybe you should be reminded that it'll apply to you as well.
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:09   #74
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Whats the point in a law or course on RIB safety and kill cords ? some of the most experienced helms you'll find are on here, and already some admit they don't use kill cords.....so whats the point !!!!
If we can't get to grips with our own basic safety in place just now, how the hell are we going to police more rules.
I think the best way forward is for us as (bought the T shirt etc) to educate newbies to our sport, with our experience. And try harder to clean up our own act. I'm not saying we are in need of re-training or anything like that, but just simple things like reading check lists out loud, counting off safety checks etc, and letting crew and passengers hear us doing it (bit like a flight crew)
I know some of you will already do this, but it's all to easy to do checks in your head and it looks like your laid back.
Education is the way forward, and it's better to come from someone that knows than someone lining their pockets. IMO
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:10   #75
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Originally Posted by Ribbed41Pleasure View Post

Nos4r2 - I think I get what you are suggesting but in reality to suggest any boat that needs to be permanently helmed requires a kill chord - well surely in the eyes of the maritime law, that is any power boat super tanker, cruise ship downwards!
Ok, any vessel that can be helmed single handedly and doesn't have an autopilot turned on. It's minutae.

Realistically, we'll end up with a non-qualification if we get regulated and the training costs will be prohibitive.
Take a look at the Drivers CPC for HGV drivers for example.You only need to turn up, not prove you can even do anything yet the training costs are ridiculous-or Paddlers example of the deerstalking qualifications.

Neither have improved anything apart from the pockets of the training centres however they've deterred many from entering the industries.
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:13   #76
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Having read all the comments and seen many eBay specials on the water helmed by untrained people, I think that the the two vote options really don't cover it.

Mandatory kill cord regulations are not practical and clearly the voluntary education system is not sufficient to prevent accidents. I would say the requirement should be for mandatory training to Level 2/ICC level and licensing before you are allowed on the water and I see no reason why this couldn't be policed at the slipway. There is no reason why a harbour master or marina owner couldn't ask to see a licence when people pay to launch.

Yes, I agree that mandatory licensing on the roads does not stop the idiots and it wont stop the idiots on the water but it would hopefully reduce them. However comparing boating to driving really is not a fair comparison as there are far more variables on the water than there are on the roads, the comparison to flying imo is far more accurate. I also accept that the number of these kinds of incidents is relatively low however, if you read the MAIB reports for leisure accidents it usually pretty clear that lack of training or experience was a major factor

The fact that you can go out and buy a boat potentially capable of 30/40/50 kts without any requirement for training or licensing is just mental. When I was younger, my parents had a 35 ft fly bridge cruiser which we used regularly and cruised around the west coast. We had no training whatsoever and got ourselves into some pretty dodgy situations which could probably have been prevented with a little knowledge. We went out in weather that was beyond or capabilities, weather in which most other boats stayed in the harbour, but we went for it anyway. We had buoyancy aids but not life jackets, we had no life raft although we did have an inflatable in a bag in the bilges and figured that was sufficient, we couldn't have plotted a position if our lives depended on it and it was at least a year of use before I (age 17) but not my parents, went and got my VHF ticket.

At the time we didn't see anything wrong with what we were doing, the dealer we bought the boat from didn't give us any info or suggestions - frankly that's not their job although the guy who delivered the boat did show me how to spring it properly, the marina didn't ask if we had any training or recommend any training - they just want boat in the water in most cases and most other boaters we spoke to were in a similar position to us.

We were the people who legislation is aimed at, the people who not only don't know what they are doing wrong but don't even realise that they don't know what they are doing wrong. The fact that we didn't end up as a news report is frankly a testament to good luck more than anything!

Having said all that the things I find most scary about this thread however is the number of people who CHOOSE not to wear a kill cord particularly in a leisure situation and the number of people who are clearly wearing it on their wrists or lifejackets! If you want to reduce the number of times you accidentally pull the cord then wear it on your leg, the wrist or LJ is just a crazy place to attach it. I will admit that I used to attach to my LJ but stopped given the number of times i pulled it by accident, not to mention the fact that you could easily get it tangled on the throttle and render it ineffective.
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:17   #77
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Ribbed41Pleasure do you mean the very good, merc/mariner toggle and loop kill switch.
these are extreemly good kill switches and are quite good and not falling out/off when you dont whant them to. if yours is easy to dislodge then i think there is something a miss with it.
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:22   #78
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oooooh Biffer, a Bluetooth kill chord could be the answer to all our issues!! I like!

To me a kill chord is just one piece of the puzzle. From a simplistic point of view attacking the issue of kill chords is a quick and easy response. But in practice I think we have all admitted it is flawed in terms of policing/legislation.

The very time you can be seen and scrutinised from another vessel/ashore is when berthing, when most people probably cannot use their kill chord (like me), so would we arrest them on the spot??! Nah, lets promote the use of kill chords by whatever means (stickers, campaigns and manufacturer etc) but lets stop people from going out with not a thought for their own safety or those around them.

A motorised boat underway, with a buffoon at the helm is still going to kill people, wearing a kill chord or not! That sadly in my mind, is the biggest hurdle for us to combat . . . and I do not know the answer
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:22   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxg View Post
Also I think that all the legislation in the world will not make people were kill cord's.
I have see many skippers leaving it "dangling" just though habbit.
Why don't the manufactures make a styem? ie an actuator that would initiate a warning to start in the event the engine would cut if it went hard over to port and staid there ie out of control boat that has started to circulate?.
Hydraulic steering won't go hard over if left unattended - neither will no feed back cable steering for that matter!

With the exception of Verado's steering and engines (and often even rigging) are all done by separate companies
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:26   #80
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I think there is too much legislation in our lives. People need to drive their boats in a sensible manner. Perhaps the RYA (or may be another organisation) should print some bright red warning stickers that you put on your boat dash/ steering wheel etc... so when you set off there is a reminder to connect the kill cord. Sometimes I have "forgotten" to clip it on as have been distracted by the kids...But a simple sticker in my face would remind me "KILL CORD?"
These stickers should be compulsory for all new boats, and available from all chandleries as a freeby by the till.

One day, if there continue to be a number of reckless drivers of sport boats, we all might suffer by having to be trained, licensed and policed... it takes the fun out of our freedom! " Have a word" with anyone who is being stupid- boat owners can self-police!!

Rant over!
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