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View Poll Results: Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance?
Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance 130 22.15%
Keep the current unregulated system with an emphasis on education 457 77.85%
Voters: 587. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09 May 2013, 04:34   #61
Country: UK - England
Town: Morpeth
Boat name: No Name yet
Make: Zodiac
Length: 5m +
Engine: Outboard 60HP
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 9
My personal opinion is that the RYA Powerboat level 2 course should be compulsory for all. I know of too many people who venture out on the water with no previous coaching.

Perhaps this is something that boat insurance companies could enforce on behalf of everyone; i.e. no training, no insurance.

This could then be complimented by harbour masters/launch companies by not allowing boats with no insurance into the water?

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Old 09 May 2013, 04:34   #62
Country: Croatia
Length: no boat
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3
Hello all, I've read about this really terrible accident in UK. I'm coming from Croatia, since I'm working with many UK colleagues, I have to say I was very stunned when they told me Compulsory licensing is not mandatory in UK. In Croatia it is mandatory last 40 years same as kill cords (on open boats), we have different categories of licenses, A,B,C... for example category B is for boats next to 12 m, training (theoretic and practical) and exam taking around two-three weeks for category B, without license you can not drive any boat and you cannot rent any boat without appropriate license (same it's on rivers/lakes and on a sea). But to be clear even licensing sometimes it's not sufficient and it happens accidents. Personal responsibility, awareness of your possibilities, compliance with the security rules and knowledge is always most important!
From my 25 years sailing experience and my point of view you should have compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords!

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Old 09 May 2013, 04:35   #63
Country: France
Town: Ile de Re
Boat name: Re lax
Make: Piranha 6m
Length: 6m +
Engine: Evinrude 90 hp ETEC
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 145
Originally Posted by Cypman View Post
It is not Ribnet users who need educatiion or console reminders. It is the large group of boat owners who buy a boat and then go to sea, invariably without any training, insurance or life jackets.
How do we inform this group, without mandatory training, that is the question !!
Initiatives, like launching sites requiring to see insurance, etc,etc, are a good idea, but the information flow needs to be much greater. Maybe a government funded advertising campaign is now required, they do enough of them on driving related topics.
i am not sure this should be a Government responsibility but the responsibility of firstly the seller/Agent/Manufacturer. Then organisations like RYA/RibNet and Yacht clubs etc and ALL boating magazines. I remember when seatbelts became compulsory the take up was slow but now one would not dream of getting in to a car with out putting on a seat belt.

If passengers refuse to go out in a boat without a kill cord then the owners would soon get the message.
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Old 09 May 2013, 04:36   #64
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Country: UK - England
Town: Ashton-under-Lyne Lancs
Boat name: IMOGEN
Make: Air-Craft 5.4
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 60
MMSI: 235087492
Join Date: May 2010
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Originally Posted by Boycey View Post
Yes, compulsory licencing. I have one so why shouldn't everyone?
"Freedom" I hear you cry. Bollocks to that
Perhaps you should look at emigrating then if you like to be controlled and regulated so much.

May I suggest North Korea
Member of S.A.B.S. (Lancashire Division)
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Old 09 May 2013, 04:40   #65
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Country: UK - England
Town: The wilds of Wiltshire
Boat name: WhiteNoise/Dominator
Make: Ballistic 7.8/SR5.4
Length: 7m +
Engine: Opti 225/Yam 85
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Originally Posted by sib View Post

surely the outboard manufacturers can make some kind of annoying "ping" noise to remind people to attach the cord, a bit like a modern car does with a seatbelt.
I spent an hour or so thinking about that idea last night and it's not really possible to do it and not hugely increase the risk of failure. You'd need a wired, waterproof flexible connection to the helmsman that detected if the cord was actually attached to the helmsman rather than left dangling.

it's a nice idea.
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Old 09 May 2013, 04:41   #66
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Country: UK - England
Town: Littlehampton, W Sx
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MMSI: 235101591
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 732
You can have responsibilities to the rest of society at all levels.

Own a dog?
Ride a bike?
Walk on pavements?
Ride a horse?
Have children?

The "its always somebody else's fault" culture of the last couple of decades doesn't help.

Today Nick Clegg has vetoed changes to the legislation on nurseries. As it stands, there are limits on how many children you can look after, you need to be qualified and you need to have a detailed CRB check to look after children - does this mean that becoming a parent requires vetting and regulation?
"Can ye model it? For if ye can, ye understand it, and if ye canna, ye dinna!" - Lord kelvin
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Old 09 May 2013, 04:42   #67
Country: UK - England
Town: Aylesbury/Lymington
Boat name: Farfetched
Make: Solent
Length: 6m +
Engine: 150hp Optimax
MMSI: 235021048
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 858
I never cease to be amzed by the sight of powerful ribs going down lymington river with often more people on board than secure seats and no lifejackets and the killcoard just hanging. This is not a rare sighting from my balcony - yes I am watching you

The lurker overlooking Town Quay!!!!
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Old 09 May 2013, 04:54   #68
Country: UK - England
Town: Bristol
Boat name: loopy lou
Make: Avon Searider
Length: 5m +
Engine: Honda BF75
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 128
It should be compulsory for everyone to have some sort of minimum training before going on the water,maybe PB level 2 or similar.
I think everyone who has spent anytime on our coastline will have ta story to tell about some inexperienced boater getting in to trouble.
Licensing and comp training can't come soon enoug.
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Old 09 May 2013, 04:54   #69
Country: UK - England
Town: South Coast
Length: 9m +
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 26
I agree changing my kill switch perhaps is the answer . . .seems a bit odd when both engines have been brand new!

The issue I have with a blanket campaign/legislation on use of kill chords, there is, as has been admitted by others, a time and a place. I have to depart and arrive single crewed onto most berths. Does this mean I would get the Elf and safety do gooders shouting at me in the marina for being a stupid idiot for having my kill chord hanging there??

Ideally I believe we need to nudge people via a formal requirement to hold a certificate and for that certificate to be issued on the demonstration of sound seamanship. I do believe it is very easy to get the minimum qualification for very little in terms of demonstrated ability and mind set.

Nos4r2 - I think I get what you are suggesting but in reality to suggest any boat that needs to be permanently helmed requires a kill chord - well surely in the eyes of the maritime law, that is any power boat super tanker, cruise ship downwards!

I to am a pilot both professionally and to a much lesser extent for pleasure. I teach in both. I enjoy boating as a pastime because of the very lack of legislation when compared to aviation. Farting about on a boat is probably the very reason most people get into it in the first place. I would be interested to hear in due course whether any of the poor souls on that rib accident had any form of qualification.

My current belief is that if we use the present qualification program as a bench mark, will it really teach people the dangers? Be good to hear from some instructors in this field? Unless people get on a boat and appreciate the threats, they can do very little to avoid them. Does the current RYA scheme ram home the threats to us boaters??? It is hard for me to judge as I come from a threat and error managed professional background so this sort of thing is my bread and butter.

I re-iterate, there are threats to wearing a kill chord as much as there are threats to not wearing a kill chord, dependant on boat, helm, sea conditions, task in hand, souls on board, the list goes on. I do not want to be made, by legislation, into being a idiotic fool for making sound judgements based on present conditions by others around me and least of the 'law' if it became such.

As is the case when commanding a commercial aircraft, we have rules and procedures, but the skipper is paid to make judgements on when to apply and when not to apply such rules . . . We have the saying at work that those who fly purely by the book will fly themselves and others into the mountain with the book firmly clutched to their chest. We cannot legislate or make rules for every scenario. A good skipper knows that, the problem is do we have good skippers out on the water?!
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Old 09 May 2013, 04:55   #70
Country: UK - England
Length: 5m +
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by Ribbed41Pleasure View Post
And then Mercury users (if like the last two I have owned) will have a greater risk of injuring people from false emergency stops because the kill cord toggle switch is too sensitive. I gave up using mine for this reason. I had to balance risk of no kill chord against using one which caused it's own dangers. So now only briefed 'trusted' crew go near the throttle/helm. I make it quite clear to everyone the dangers and get quite 'shirty' with people on the boat who don't listen or head the warnings. Kill chords in my experience solve one problem but can create another - they are not the holy grail in my view (for Mercury anyway)
You can change the switch, its only a couple of quid (£10-25) depending on make but if you dont like the mercury switch fit a tohatsu or a honda or a....
our Honda throttle box has a tohatsu kill switch was about 15mins to swap.

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