View Poll Results: Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance?
Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance 130 22.15%
Keep the current unregulated system with an emphasis on education 457 77.85%
Voters: 587. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09 May 2013, 05:01   #41
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Unfortunately laws are aimed at those within the population who require them, but those same individuals are usually the ones to flaunt the law. The impression in our area is that the vast majority of persons using boats where and when kill cords are necessary do so, as evidenced by the low level of incidences reported every year. However it would be interesting to see either RNLI, MCA and Coast Guard data on how many incidences of ‘runaway boats’ are actually recorded in Britain and Ireland each year.

Is this similar to wearing a seat belt in a car? Is an education campaign run in tandem with legislation required? Legislation may provide the power for the authorities to take a retrospective prosecution against an individual who has had an incident but actively policing it would be difficult to say the least. As with many things today the ‘good’ citizens individual discretion is eroded. Do we trust our fellow citizen to be sensible or are we all in a race to the bottom with legislation for every possible outcome or potential danger.

A set of stickers to be applied on every throttle stating ‘Wear your Kill Cord’, a video shown in every club of the potential outcomes, the potential of a fine….. will these convince those individuals who are reckless?
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Old 09 May 2013, 05:01   #42
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I was a pilot for 20 years. It's actaully surprisingly easy to fly and land an aeroplane, yet you must have a licence, insurance and a medical, even to fly a microlight. That's because flying an aircraft is one very small part of being a competent pilot. Being a pilot is understanding safety, weather, air traffic, VHF procedures, landing and approach procedures, rights of way etc etc.

Boating is just as complex as I have discovered. I now have an RYA advanced powerboat qualification.
Why is it OK on any level, to allow a completely unqualified, inexperienced and ignorant individual to take to the seas in a potentially lethal, high-speed water craft?
Yes, compulsory licencing. I have one so why shouldn't everyone?
"Freedom" I hear you cry. Bollocks to that, I want the freedom to go to sea in my boat without putting my own family at risk by being surrouned by incomopetent idiots..

Good training is great fun, very rewarding and will possibly save your life one day.

GO AND GET TRAINED OR STAY OUT OF MY WAY
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Old 09 May 2013, 05:04   #43
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Educate people of the importance of kill cords, it is very bad that it takes an accident like this to bring it to our attention again. Sad but true. My condolences to the family and friends.

Seamonstie
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Old 09 May 2013, 05:04   #44
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We already have far too much legislation, education yes but NOT compulsory.

Boating is the last great freedom - why should we surrender it? Great sadness about loss of life, any life, but we need to ban cars - they crash, also roads - because if we had no roads people couldn't speed on them.

We have so much legislation, expense, taxation etc already, do you really want MORE?

By all means campaign to make people aware but legislate - no way!
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Old 09 May 2013, 05:05   #45
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Education not Compulsion

I believe education is the most important I am also a motorcyclist as well as the holder of my Masters ticket and other boat and motorcycle safety certificates, but it doesn't stop the behaviour you see both as a biker and a boater I have to display a licence on my boat (empowered) why not do the same with the Killcord Sticker, no, it wont stop the stupids of this world but on the other hand it may just focus attention, something along the lines of the BikeSafe sticker in the rear window of my CAR you would be surprised how much attention it gets both from bikers and car drivers. With all due respect and condolences to the family this man had a beautiful boat and was surely aware of the risks and the killcord was still in place when the boat was retrieved, NO Iam not pre-judging but more making the point you can legislate but to do so you must first EDUCATE. By the way if you think 'cos I'm a biker I'm some young idiot I'm 75 next Tuesday.
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Old 09 May 2013, 05:05   #46
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Licence to kill!

As much as I would dearly like to vote for compulsory training and kill-cords I fear that the people who most need the training would find a way around it and/or still not take the necessary precautions. Sometimes I helm without a kill cord, other times I wouldn't leave the dock without one, like most people I assess the circumstances and make an informed decision on the basis of that appraisal. I once had an RNLI safety check on one of my boats, the first thing that the inspector said was that he didn't expect to find very much wrong, he said that the only people that asked for a safety inspection are the ones that are least likely to need it!
Lets not bring in yet more legislation and cost for very little or no gain.
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Old 09 May 2013, 05:08   #47
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Originally Posted by Ribbed41Pleasure View Post
Willks . . Haha if you say so

Nos4r2 - not sure 'bloody dumb' is a fair criticism as if the risks have been 'balanced' it is hardly 'dumb' .

I would be interested in what you believe to be the 'cuttoff' (no pun intended!!) of when a boat does not need a kill chord. Because with your stance it appears anyone getting on the water without a kill chord is plain dumb.

I also think this is a kneejerk reaction and yes boats are bloody dangerous. If everyone had that mind set when they stepped on one we would not be debating this issue.

I do not know your boat or your Yamaha set up or your boating 'style' so I would not dare comment, but I can assure you in my personal experience I have nearly broken a few skulls because the engine has quit at 40kts because the kill chord has tripped. Bad helm stance? - probably, bad throttle position? _ probably, Bad toggle switch design? - Probably, Bad operator technique? - Probably . . . this list could go on. My point it - I have had more near injuries at slow and fast speed using MY MERCURY kill chord than I have of mowing everyone down. I am not suggesting this will never happen as law of averages says it will. So I mitigate against both, one by not using the kill chord (unless only crew sat down in prone position in rough weather) and other times have a very strict policy on helm use and who goes where and how on the boat.

Maybe I am a fool, but dumb, no - I have thought about it. Something that I bet many to which this whole debate relates - have not. Education and an appreciation of whilst fun, it is bloody dangerous maybe the best defence.
Hence the edit-it now says 'stupid'.

Fix the cause of the problem rather than mitigating against the symptoms.

Every MERCURY that I've owned including the CURRENT MERCURY has never had a problem with the kill being accidentally activated.


IMO, every boat that requires the helm to be continuously manned to keep it under control should have a killcord.
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Old 09 May 2013, 05:12   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boycey View Post
I was a pilot for 20 years. It's actaully surprisingly easy to fly and land an aeroplane, yet you must have a licence, insurance and a medical, even to fly a microlight. That's because flying an aircraft is one very small part of being a competent pilot. Being a pilot is understanding safety, weather, air traffic, VHF procedures, landing and approach procedures, rights of way etc etc.

Boating is just as complex as I have discovered. I now have an RYA advanced powerboat qualification.
Why is it OK on any level, to allow a completely unqualified, inexperienced and ignorant individual to take to the seas in a potentially lethal, high-speed water craft?
Yes, compulsory licencing. I have one so why shouldn't everyone?
"Freedom" I hear you cry. Bollocks to that, I want the freedom to go to sea in my boat without putting my own family at risk by being surrouned by incomopetent idiots..

Good training is great fun, very rewarding and will possibly save your life one day.

GO AND GET TRAINED OR STAY OUT OF MY WAY

So what you're saying is that there's less absolute bloody idiots on the roads where there's been compulsory licencing for over half a century than there are at sea?

Passing a test doesn't make an idiot stop being an idiot.

I agree 100%-go and get trained. However, if you think that any form of government implemented training regime is going to be anywhere near as useful/relevant as what's currently on offer I think you're going to be very disappointed.

In reality what we'll end up with is a massive spiralling of training costs (I've seen this before when legislation comes in) for a course that's so watered down that it's pointless.

I'm sure someone will say 'well this time it'll be different'. It hasn't been different yet. What makes you think we'll be different from the rest of them?


Just a thought. You're a pilot, which in itself tends to suggest that
1) You're at least fairly intelligent
2)You've got enough income that training costs on a boat wouldn't be an issue.
3) You're already of the right mindset to respond to training and will probably actively seek it out.

I think you're assuming everyone is the same. They aren't. The terminally stupid paddlers in the gene pool also own boats.
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Old 09 May 2013, 05:12   #49
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I'm a relative newby and the though of more regulation sickens me. We live in a society where we're told what we can and can't do at every corner and I'm fed up with it.

I'm absolutely in favour of compulsory kill cords, but you've got to educate users to remember to use them. I'm also all in favour of compulsory training. I haven't done my RYA inshore course yet but I will do very soon now I appreciate the need for it but compulsory licensing is a step too far for me.

The big issue has to be education. Why would anybody drive a high powered boat without the kill cord attached? The same reason why thousands of people use their mobile phones while driving. Ignorance and the belief that 'it won't happen to me'.
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Old 09 May 2013, 05:13   #50
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I am still a pilot. I do agree the exams and training in General Aviation but ONLY because of the damage to other's a crashing plane can do.
But with boating you run a high chance of over regulation then favoring the commercial sector, as I have see with the CAA.
GA is know a difficult thing to do over the skies of the UK because of the cutting up of the sky ways in favor of commercial airlines (look at a lot of "international airports" that have six flights a day three in the morning and three in the afternoon, but for a GA pilot to fly into it outside these times is very hard, expensive and unwelcoming, considering that it would have been a small airport not so long ago.).
I agree with the idea of training but not legislation as it gets out of control very quickly.
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