View Poll Results: Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance?
Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance 130 22.15%
Keep the current unregulated system with an emphasis on education 457 77.85%
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Old 14 May 2013, 17:16   #431
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"Community" is a horrible word that smacks of curtain twitching and Chinese whispers. However, I totally agree with you!!
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Old 14 May 2013, 17:29   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaingRed View Post
Yes, I think this could be heading in the right direction. We are in a "community" of like minded individuals who are passionate aboat their bouts
Can anyone see a reason why we can't find a relatively simple solution to getting people qualified, educated and to be responsible whilst enjoying what we ALL enjoy? It needn't be over regulated or over priced, just more community spirit! Which is something the whole country lacks these days...What what!!

Just for the record, I did PB2 down in Poole, it was blowing a force 7 out at the entrance, which was fun and I learnt a fair bit about rough sea handling, then within the harbour where it was much more sheltered we spent a fair amount of time handling at 30knots plus.

Anyway, peace and love to all, lets get a "community" scheme running
Doh My two paragraphs were meant to describe the status quo... they were a little tongue in cheek reference to the RYA Powerboat training scheme and RNLI SeaCheck (or whatever it is called now). You appear to be trying to reinvent the wheel - which is not good because boats don't really need wheels!
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Old 14 May 2013, 17:30   #433
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I know mate, but it could work. And anyway mister p, those who twitch curtains tend to sail!!
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Old 14 May 2013, 17:33   #434
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Maybe - this is the point so I state it for clarity:

RYA & RNLI both manage the community - no need to reinvent the wheel.

RYA provide courses and instructors with MCA input - remember on PB2 is a commercially endorsable Certificate.

RNLI provide sea safety advice to anybody that needs it - in a non-judgemental way.

Both - RYA & RNLI sit on committees that advise on safety issues - and represent the boating community in general. If you notice crutch straps are now bring provided by most life jackets manufacturers - this was due to RYA & RNLI pressure.

RIB net & the other site next door , provide community support - with cruises & day outs a place to ask for advice...

Educate not Legislate is key thing here.

If it is not broke don't fix -

You can't legislate for accidents by shear nature of what an accident is...

Edit: Poly best me to it !

RNLI Sea Check is now Advice on Board
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Old 14 May 2013, 17:46   #435
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Is saying to people that if they want to go out on the water they must have an RYA qualification for the craft they are handling, too much regulation? Or is it ensuring that people are educated?

Going back to a previous post of mine I think that we should push a bit harder for people to take PB1 at least! Doing PB2 did me proud!
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Old 14 May 2013, 18:06   #436
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The obvious point being missed by anyone suggesting legislation is that it won't stop !! My own line of work started with a voluntary test costing a few pounds run by the british deer society now a mandatory test costing hundreds added to each year just to do something that's been done for generations. So called leading lights now make rich pickings out of running courses and add to the 'qualifications' each year for extra money to get to the next level. Pointless, expensive & has done more to stop people taking up the hobby plus some of the 'experts are more dangerous than the novices. Please recognise that the ability to pass a test is NOT a sign of common sense !!!
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Old 15 May 2013, 03:04   #437
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You'd soon jump up and down if one of your "nearest and dearest" was struck by a boat being driven by someone who just bought a boat, jumped in it and away to sea without any idea on how to control it, or that the KILL CORD is there to be worn, not just there to aid starting the engine.

Instead of saying "it'll never work, It'll never work" why don't we just TRY and come up with something that will.

I know some of you think that we are trying to "re-invent the wheel" here, but the wheel has been reinvented many times, and each time it has been improved!!
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Old 15 May 2013, 03:09   #438
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Despite the weather today (Gale6/7) i was down on our RIB and took these pictures.

Pic 1, our primary Killcord attached to the dog collar
Pic 2, When leaving the boat for a short period you can leave comfortably on the leg
Pic 3, Or secure collar around the throttle(s), so that it is in your face when you want to be under way.
The use of the collar around the leg and clipping the KC to it, retains the original length. I can move to either side of our wide beam RIB with ease and not trigger the engines to cut out. By having a temporary mooring line near the consol, it is easy to come along side single handed.
I didn't understand your previous post, but now I see it, I like it. Pet shop here I come
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Old 15 May 2013, 03:57   #439
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the wheel has been reinvented many times, and each time it has been improved!!
Should I point out at this stage that it's still round and still rotates?

SeaingRed. Do you REALLY think you can make the blindest bit of difference to
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaingRed View Post
someone who just bought a boat, jumped in it and away to sea without any idea on how to control it, or that the KILL CORD is there to be worn,
by introducing hideously overcomplicated solutions that they'd be too stupid/reckless not to disable immediately anyway?

Make something foolproof and someone will breed a better fool.
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Old 15 May 2013, 04:50   #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaingRed View Post
You'd soon jump up and down if one of your "nearest and dearest" was struck by a boat being driven by someone who just bought a boat, jumped in it and away to sea without any idea on how to control it, or that the KILL CORD is there to be worn, not just there to aid starting the engine.
I have recently returned to boating after about 25 year break. For 15+ years prior to that I spent pretty much all my spare time 'mucking about' in sailing boats and much of it passing my experience on to others. I feel that I have a healthy respect for water and the sea.

Whilst a lot of that time was spent in, and as a qualified sports and rescue boat cox the latter arts in charge of, safety boats, I am now returning to pleasure motoring with a small inflatable and reasonably sized outboard.

As I have gained a health respect for water and the sea in my previous life, I now consider myself a novice in my new adventure.

I have been educated by others and educated myself in all things kill cord. When I collected my engine, my dealer reiterated the use of the kill cord, when I open the manual of my boat, I get safety advice including use of kill cord, when I look at transom of my boat, I get pictures telling me to use safety kit like life jackets and kill cords, when I open manual to my outboard, I get told to use kill cord, and even though the picture on my outboard does not show the use of the kill cord on the start/stop switch for its starting procedure, I am educated enough to know that I should use a kill cord to operate this.

I do not need any more education or pieces of paper to tell me or to prove to others that I need to use the kill cord even though I just bought a boat and I a couple of weeks I'm going to be wizzing (at max 6.5 knots) up and down a fast moving tidal river with a potential torrent of a river mouth.

What makes the difference between someone using a kill cord or taking excessive risk, and someone else who might not, is respect for the sea, intuition, awareness of cause and consequence, and remembering to use it. All of those things can be present in people who just bought a boat or are fully qualified. But they can be equally missing from the same group of people.

Yes. People need to be educated, but the education for the things that would have prevented the recent tragedy is already there, along with freely available local knowledge. What was sadly missing, was either respect for the sea, intuition, awareness of cause and consequence or just simply a brief moment of absentmindness which no matter how well trained we are, can happen to us all.

Hopefully some good will have come from the high profile publicity of this accident and it will have reiterated to others the cause and consequence of not wearing a kill cord.

As for me not doing PB2 before taking to the water. There are some things in life where you need to try before you buy. This year, we will be keeping to our known limits and have prepared for some unknowns. Had i needed to get formal training, we would have been one family to miss out on the joys of boating. Next year, if we like boating as a family, it will be PB1 and 2.
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