View Poll Results: Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance?
Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance 130 22.15%
Keep the current unregulated system with an emphasis on education 457 77.85%
Voters: 587. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 14 May 2013, 07:19   #411
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I think we're arriving at a crucial stage here. The difference between education and regulation. Education can be in the form of qualification or instruction. It's whether or not this is enforced. This is the regulation bit.
If we enforce education but not anything else that leaves a huge hole re. boat safety. I mean the actual seaworthiness.
This will mean an regular safety check. Nothing wrong with that. Apart from cost.
If we maintain a high standard of self policing, as I believe already exists, then knee jerk politics can and should be avoided.
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Old 14 May 2013, 07:35   #412
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Originally Posted by steco1958 View Post
How many slips are there in the UK ? need to check each license each time a launch takes place, this would have massive costs involved, unless the slips are closed and access to the sea is via organised club/marina slips.

Who said there would be no impact / cost to those of use doing it correctly ??

I am not for over regulation, I am for education, if the government get involved you know they will legislate and it wil become almost impossible to use your boat.

Steve
Every license every time would be out of the question, no one has their car license checked every time they go to drive. Police check those who, in their opinion, need checking. Spot checks and the like. And if WE as a Community keep up the Self Policing as mister p says, along with a check on qualification/license then I think we'll be closer to the goal of weeding out potential needless accidents.
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Old 14 May 2013, 07:44   #413
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IanH, I agree with you that holding a piece of paper to say that you can is no way the end of all our problems, but its a start and a good way to give people that basic knowledge and confidence to go out and gain the experience safely. I was much more keen to learn more about boating and the areas where we go out after I'd done PB2, If you like it opened my eyes to how boating is more than just blasting about for a laugh with your mates then going home
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Old 14 May 2013, 07:54   #414
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Kill cord compliance

Hi John,
I've been boating with power boats since I was a kid of twelve and am now 64! The best thing that happened was kill switches and yes there should be encouragement to use them. Legislation means water police and who'll pay for it. Guess who? US. The govt already extracts excess money from us on the ROAD duty applied to fuel and we get zero in return. Also the cost at marinas is excessively high compared to road side fuel stations.
If you're launching or using a Marina then they can check if your insured. The difficulty is in open sea water where you've launched off a beach.Where I boat in the sea I can beach launch as the RIB is only 5.5 mts. On Loch Lomond which is inland and fresh water the boat needs to be registered and have insurance to be used. They are strict about a minimum of 2 in the boat, lifejackets for all, ideally marine radio, flares, speed within 150 mts of the shore limited to 5knts and use of kill switches. The Loch is patrolled and funded by the power boat users. It seems to work well. Anyone under 16 yrs must be supervised by a responsible adult (Hmmm if you can find one) and alcohol controlled.
As regards training.
1) All boats to have insurance
2) All coxes to have at least RYA PB2
3) No PB2 = No insurance so job done
4) No PB2 then no sale of a power boat.
Having said all that several years ago a crew were out for a jolly in a brand new 80K fast cruiser. At least on board were 2 experienced boat owners but in sail. They'd had lunch at Stonefield Castle Hotel and later on ramped the boat at full speed onto the rocks at the mouth of Tarbert harbour Loch Fyne. They boat was totally wreckedwrecked and I seem to recall that at least 2 died. The marks are still there 100 mts up the rocks
Sobering thought.
Regards,
Gordon

________________________________________
From: support@rib.net [support@rib.net] On Behalf Of rib@rib.net [rib@rib.net]
Sent: 09 May 2013 09:30
To: Meek Gordon (NHS Greater Glasgow & Clyde)
Subject: RIBnet update: Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords? What do you think?

Hi

As you are probably aware there was a serious incident last weekend with an out of control RIB which left two people dead and others seriously injured.

Powerboat & RIB Magazine is now campaigning for compulsory licensing for powerboat users, and for kill cords to be mandatory with fines imposed for anyone not complying.

Do you agree that the time has come to bring in legislation? Or do you think the current system is sufficient?

We are really interested to hear people's views and would appreciate your input. There is a simple poll where you can say which approach you think is appropriate, and you are welcome to use the poll thread to discuss the issues in more detail.
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Old 14 May 2013, 08:13   #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaingRed View Post
Every license every time would be out of the question, no one has their car license checked every time they go to drive. Police check those who, in their opinion, need checking. Spot checks and the like. And if WE as a Community keep up the Self Policing as mister p says, along with a check on qualification/license then I think we'll be closer to the goal of weeding out potential needless accidents.
I hear what you say, but again, where is the funding going to come from for the spot checks, who will do these spot checks, and how much money will that take, as soon as you start looking at the option of checks of any sort, then money will have to be forked out, this in turn will cause other issues as it does with cars and un-insured drivers.

Steve
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Old 14 May 2013, 08:17   #416
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Kill cords etc

Further to my last post, the Loch Fyne tragedy was July 2005 and was investigated by the MAIB. They concluded causes were due to
1) Alcohol
2)Fatigue
3)Inexperience especially in dark navigation by both helmsmen. Night navigation is part of level 4 PB (advanced power boat certification) and is not part of any level less. PB3 has day nav.
4)Excessive speed entering and unfamiliar harbour.
3 died and the survivors were seriously injured. The is still a report on the web site with BBC news for those interested Try Loch Fyne high speed accident Tarbert.
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Old 14 May 2013, 08:32   #417
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Is pb2 an actual qualification or a course completion cert?..just being pedantic....
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Old 14 May 2013, 08:50   #418
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Is pb2 an actual qualification or a course completion cert?..just being pedantic....
it's a qualification ie you can fail it ...
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Old 14 May 2013, 08:56   #419
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Is pb2 an actual qualification or a course completion cert?..just being pedantic....
Well I guess you can fail (rarely) - even if you do complete the course - does that make it a qualification?

PB2 is really all about slow speed boat handling with a smattering of navigation & MOB practice. There is precious little 'on the plane' experience, which does surprise me. Especially if its supposed to prepare you for RIBs.
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Old 14 May 2013, 09:05   #420
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Quote:
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it's a qualification ie you can fail it ...
I guess thats my point - 'IF' ( and its a big 'IF') legislation was introduced how can a standard (of say PB2) be used if you can't fail it ? A qualification should be pass/ fail - otherwise I'd have more A levels !!!

Would we comfortable with the guys at the controls of a 747 having completed an ' unable to fail ' course - or a surgeon ...or people driving cars, or a moped CBT course etc etc.?

I can see the reasoning behind wanting things to be safer but in my head the entire thing is a complete non-starter (hence why I'm not voting).

I'll get my coat
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